Interesting video on bicycle steering

[MontyVeda]

We don't even think about doing it... I'm surprised that something so intuitive is actually taught (as mentioned up-thread).

The only reason I know we do it is after reading an article about an RC motorbike that required no stabilisers, and its inventor, after paying a lot of attention to how he rode his own motorbike, realised that one steers a little bit one way before turning the other way... and created a counter-steer mechanism to put on his little RC toy.

 

[ColinJ]

The motorcycle one I can see what happens but remain unconvinced. Seeing isn't always believing.

Well, I just tested it...

I found a level, quiet backstreet and cycled straight down the centre of the road. My left hand was off the bar and I just had the tip of my right index finger resting on the RHS of the bar.

I pulled my finger back by 1 cm. What do think happened?

1. The bike steered gently to the right
2. The bike hardly reacted.
3. Something else!

Yes, it was (3)... The bike instantly started to topple to the left. Immediate corrective action required!

I did it several times, sometimes to the left, sometimes to the right and the bike always started to go the 'wrong' way.

How strange that I never noticed in my 58 years of riding bicycles!

 

[Alex321]

Well, yes. I was thinking that myself as I watched it.... along the lines of 'not sure I'd taking those bends like that'

None-the-less, the video does admirably demonstrate that his attempts to steer out of the way of the oncoming truck where having exactly the opposite of the desired effect. I note it says that the rider wasn't seriously injured - that is thankfully a blessing and, I must admit, a tad surprising. That would have been a fair old impact.

Actually, it said he suffered serious injuries but survived.

 

[yello]

Actually, it said he suffered serious injuries but survived.

Ah, must have missed that 'serious injuries' bit because I was incredulous that he'd actually survived.

Edit: AND the truck he hit had trained medical staff on board. Blimey, I guess I was stunned he actually lived that I blanked everything else out!

 

[rogerzilla]

A bike will ride itself, anyway. Take a bike - preferably someone else's, and not something twitchy like a Brompton - to the top of a hill, run with it to get it up to 10mph or so, then let go. It doesn't need a rider to keep it upright.

 

[Vapin' Joe]

We don't even think about doing it... I'm surprised that something so intuitive is actually taught (as mentioned up-thread).

The only reason I know we do it is after reading an article about an RC motorbike that required no stabilisers, and its inventor, after paying a lot of attention to how he rode his own motorbike, realised that one steers a little bit one way before turning the other way... and created a counter-steer mechanism to put on his little RC toy.

We don't even think about doing it... I'm surprised that something so intuitive is actually taught (as mentioned up-thread).

The only reason I know we do it is after reading an article about an RC motorbike that required no stabilisers, and its inventor, after paying a lot of attention to how he rode his own motorbike, realised that one steers a little bit one way before turning the other way... and created a counter-steer mechanism to put on his little RC toy.

I have an R/C controlled motorcycle, a weight inside the figure of the rider shifts to bank the bike right or left causing it to turn and the front wheel countersteers on it's own.

it is something no cyclist or motor cyclist need ever worry about because the first time you ever banked your machine over it countersteered all on it's own. These "How to countersteer" videos are just bollocks and anyone trying to teach it doesn't really understand it. Look where you want to go, bank the bike and the steering takes care of itself.

 

[matticus]

A bike will ride itself, anyway. Take a bike - preferably someone else's, and not something twitchy like a Brompton - to the top of a hill, run with it to get it up to 10mph or so, then let go. It doesn't need a rider to keep it upright.

Wow! Someone should film that, and maybe put it into a Youtube video about countersteering. It might even get it's own Cyclechat thread!

 

[rogerzilla]

I've done it accidentally - jumped off at about 20mph when a bike started to shimmy. It seemed like the best option at the time, and ended quite well. You bounce better when you're 13 or 14. The bike even stopped upright at the bottom of the hill, incredibly, as it grazed against a grass verge.

Motorbikes can do it too, if the rider falls off or bales out:
View: https://youtu.be/MQL61B__OIQ

 

[Lookrider]

Thank you si_c I very much enjoyed watching that video for the following reason.
Quite a few years ago I was watching a TV programme hosted by Stephen Fry, think it might have been Q I.
He stated that when riding a bicycle, if you want to turn left you firstly have to steer the handlebars slightly to the right and vice versa. I admit that I struggled to grasp the concept. Over the years I have occasionally tried to test the theory but of course, one rides a bike instinctively and also the input of opposite steering is so minimal it’s difficult to realise that you’re actually doing it.
As an aside, I have in the past watched a YouTube video of a man that converted a bike to opposing steering so that to turn right you had to try to turn left or to actually turn left you had to try to turn right. When the bike was offered to people to test ride it the results proved to be very amusing.
[/QUOT

Thank you si_c I very much enjoyed watching that video for the following reason.
Quite a few years ago I was watching a TV programme hosted by Stephen Fry, think it might have been Q I.
He stated that when riding a bicycle, if you want to turn left you firstly have to steer the handlebars slightly to the right and vice versa. I admit that I struggled to grasp the concept. Over the years I have occasionally tried to test the theory but of course, one rides a bike instinctively and also the input of opposite steering is so minimal it’s difficult to realise that you’re actually doing it.
As an aside, I have in the past watched a YouTube video of a man that converted a bike to opposing steering so that to turn right you had to try to turn left or to actually turn left you had to try to turn right. When the bike was offered to people to test ride it the results proved to be very amusing.

I seen this very thing at Epson derby years back
A guy charging people to ride 20mts without falling off...if you succeeded you won £5 or so
Obviously there were lots if failings and decent profit fir the fairground man ...until ....
A guy jumped on and turned the steering left-right-left-right very fast and got to the 20mt marker fir his cash win
The fairground guy packed up and left straight after

 

[T4tomo]

it is something no cyclist or motor cyclist need ever worry about because the first time you ever banked your machine over it countersteered all on it's own. These "How to countersteer" videos are just bollocks and anyone trying to teach it doesn't really understand it. Look where you want to go, bank the bike and the steering takes care of itself.

Exactly, as i have said about, you "learn" to steer by leaning and balance the bike with a steering adjustment. You don't steer the bike by knocking it out of balance with a steering input and correcting it with a lean (except in a @ColinJ experiment).
Cause and effect!

 

[Twilkes]

The closest I come to consciously or noticeably doing this is if I'm coming up on an unseen pothole and I quickly steer left so the wheels avoid it; in doing that, the bike has effectively leaned to the right, or gone to the left underneath me, so I have to steer right to get the wheels back underneath me again. In combination with the lean, it turns me a little to the right so I have to reverse the lean and then turn the wheels back to get them back underneath me again. It's like a little shimmy, and I'd imagine that taking a bend at speed is a very slow, very subtle version of that.

As above, rather than counter steering one should think of it as leaning first and then steering to stop you falling off. And if you're ever in trouble on a bend you can generally lean a lot further than people think they can, which has the added benefit of scrubbing speed off as braking on a bend is generally not a good idea, it tends to send you straight on.

 

[Tenkaykev]

The closest I come to consciously or noticeably doing this is if I'm coming up on an unseen pothole and I quickly steer left so the wheels avoid it; in doing that, the bike has effectively leaned to the right, or gone to the left underneath me, so I have to steer right to get the wheels back underneath me again. In combination with the lean, it turns me a little to the right so I have to reverse the lean and then turn the wheels back to get them back underneath me again. It's like a little shimmy, and I'd imagine that taking a bend at speed is a very slow, very subtle version of that.

As above, rather than counter steering one should think of it as leaning first and then steering to stop you falling off. And if you're ever in trouble on a bend you can generally lean a lot further than people think they can, which has the added benefit of scrubbing speed off as braking on a bend is generally not a good idea, it tends to send you straight on.

Sounds a bit like " Let's do the Time Warp again " , but on a bicycle 😁

 

[Dogtrousers]

Now: when are they going to explain shimmy? That would be a lot more useful, as everyone could already ride a bike without knowing about counter-steering!

I've managed to ride a bike for most of my life while knowing almost nothing about shimmy. I say almost nothing because although it's never happened to me, I have seen it once.

It did happen to a friend of mine - he was way ahead of me descending a hill when - as far as I could see - he started behaving strangely and eventually pulled over. My explanation for it was "you were obviously going too fast". This was a cunning ruse on my part because I always have trouble keeping up with him. It didn't work, he carried on at an infernal pace.

Another friend of mine, a motorcyclist, described her experience of a "tank slapper". That sounded horrifying.

 

[T4tomo]

when you say "shimmy", do you mean "speed wobble"?

if you have your pedals at 9 and 3 o'clock, simply rest your forward knee gently on the cross bar and it magically stops.

don't ask me the science behind that.

 

[Twilkes]

Sounds a bit like " Let's do the Time Warp again " , but on a bicycle 😁

Don't knock it, in a race the pelvic thrust can make all the difference between coming first and second.