Is it worth buying an "old" Brompton?

[simongt]

That indicates you need to pump up the front tyre

Wot, over 100 psi - ? !

Six 2ltr. bottles = 12 kilos. plus a hefty chain lock, do the fizzics - !

 

[chriscross1966]

Wot, over 100 psi - ? !

Six 2ltr. bottles = 12 kilos. plus a hefty chain lock, do the fizzics - !

I've had more than that in there and no problem at 105psi in Marathon Plus.

 

[AboydeKid]

<sneaks onto thread>

I own a 2010 Brompton M3L (was told it was 4/5 years old on buying it) but it came with a cert saying Not Stolen...

It’s going very well and I’m loving having it.

This rim blowout thing - what do I look out for here?
Thanks from a newbie

 

[rogerzilla]

I bought an old L3 a few years back. Needed a new rear hinge but it had held up pretty well considering its age. £250 though!

 

[thenay]

<sneaks onto thread>

I own a 2010 Brompton M3L (was told it was 4/5 years old on buying it) but it came with a cert saying Not Stolen...

It’s going very well and I’m loving having it.

This rim blowout thing - what do I look out for here?
Thanks from a newbie

Hey AboydeKid, nice to meet you! In the end I didn't buy the 2003 Brompton I mentioned at the start of the thread, but have my eyes in a low mileage 2011 model - arranged to view it in the next days . How are you finding your 2010 one? I read in other threads / places some people saying the brakes aren't great pre-2013, what are your impressions? Any upgrades you felt that were necessary?

(In the long run I'll end up having to replace / upgrade parts, but I can't really afford the full price of a new one.)

The rim blowout thing worried me as well (been reading https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/brompton-rim-wear-indicator-pictures.252025/), as I'm not sure I'm knowledgeable enough to spot rim wear... currently doing some more research into that.

 

[Blue Hills]

Brakes aren't great on my late 90s 5 speed but they are good enough.

Been down the side of mountains on it - I wouldn't fret.

 

[shingwell]

The brakes on my good condition eBay 2006 Brompton are excellent. I've never had an expensive bike, or disk brakes, to compare with but they are as good as any bike I've ever owned.

 

[berlinonaut]

The brakes are perfectly fine on Bromptons from 2000 on (MK3). If you want more break power it is however worth changing the levers to the post 2013 - makes a hell of a difference in my opinion. If one considers this still not to sufficent changing the brake pads to CoolStop salmon (Dura Type) adds another little bit of brake power.

 

[thenay]

Awesome info, thanks a lot everyone!

 

[recumbentpanda]

Re ‘rim blowouts’ -this can happen on any rim braked wheel that is excessively worn. It happens when the rim is worn down so far that the thickness of the metal is not strong enough to cope with sudden shocks to the tyre and a section of the rim will split.

How long this will take will depend on the kind of conditions you ride in (muck, grit etc,) how old the rims are, how thick they were to begin with, and how often you change your brake pads (older pads can tend to get abrasive debris embedded in the surface).

If the rim feels noticeably hollow when you rub your finger up and down across the braking surface (eg, in a movement that follows the line of the spokes) then it’s time to start thinking about new rims. It’s not an exact science though, as you can guess from all the factors mentioned above!

Unless you really wear them paper thin, rim failure is likely to happen as a result of a pothole edge or a curb strike rather than just the ordinary pressure of the tyre.

 

[rogerzilla]

Small-wheelers wear rims proportionately faster than bikes with 700c wheels. Moultons chew through rims pretty quickly, too. Brake heating on descents is also more of an issue due to the lower mass of alloy to absorb the heat.

 

[AboydeKid]

Hello everyone

<waves at TheNay>

The brakes on my 2010 are excellent- no problems there
I had it serviced not long after I bought it. A cable was switched out, but everything else was fine

I’ve bought a brooks saddle (on the way) and titanium hinge clamps/twiddly things which I have yet to install.

Just really enjoying having a bicycle again after many years without, and especially having one I can take pretty much anywhere - it’s great! And v fast!

 

[rogerzilla]

The brakes on the 2000-ish L3 I had were absolutely fine with new cables. They used a single pivot caliper at the rear back then. There's nothing very special about them anyway - any cheap DP brake (Acor, etc) with sufficient reach and the ability to be reassembled for bottom cable entry (many allow this; they tend to be the ones with nuts rather than allen key bolts) is just as good, if not better than, the factory brakes.

Bear in mind that older bikes like the L3, with fishscale brazing around the main tube hinge, have a shorter wheelbase. This has two minor implications: tall riders may find them a little cramped and they MUST have the correct length rear brake cable and gear outers for SWB frames. Current cablesets are for LWB (approx 2008-on) frames, although the old ones are still available and it's possible to find out the exact lengths you need on the Internet if you want to cut your own.

If I buy a well-used old Brompton (and I've had a couple) I change the aluminium hinge clamps and the bars for safety's sake.

 

[berlinonaut]

The brakes on the 2000-ish L3 I had were absolutely fine with new cables.

For the record the brake history on the Brompton from memory:

Starting with the MK2 at the end of the eighties Brompton were using brakes by CLB. Those can be identified by a black piece of plastic on the front side of the brake axle (and look pretty similar to those used on Moulton AMs of the 80ies). Somewhere in the early nineties they switched to Sachs single pivots for a couple of years and after that to Saccon City calipers. All those brakes leave something (or a lot) to be desired in terms of brake performance. However: Better brake pads, better levers and better cables can improve a lot.

With the MK3 at the beginning of 2000 Brompton invented the dual pivot brake made by Alhonga in the front, at that time in silver. On the rear there was a new single pivot brake, probably from Alhonga as well. These brakes are fine, braking power is absolutely sufficient. This dual pivot was factory standard until the new brakes were invented at the beginning of 2018. Only the color changed over time from silver in the beginning over chapmpagne in about 2008 to dark grey in about 2013 (and black on the black adition models from 2015 on). The rear brake changed from single to dual pivot in 2007, second half I assume. No doubts about break performance with this one as well. Still the single pivot on the rear from 2000 on can be considered to be sufficient as most break power goes via the front brake anyway and the bake is better than it's anchestors.

2018 brought the actual brakes, in all black on all models. They are again dual pivots but of a different design. Front and rear brake are now identical and exchangable, they do only fit on older bikes after drilling the mounting hole on the front fork (and the front blade) a little big bigger as they use a different type of nut. I could not recognize any difference in brake performance between the actual brakes and the former dual pivots.

Brake handles/levers:

The first couple of 100 (or maybe 1000) bikes had an edgy metal brake lever, rarely seen on used bikes, as it was used only on very early ones. After a short while they got exchanged for the slim sticky looking ones that are common on Bromptons. They are lacking the possiblity for adjustment of lever or cable.

With the MK3 there came a newer generation that offered cable adjustment, those are called "open clovis" due to the way the cable is mounted inside the lever and had a, I think, 30° angle.

2008 brought a redesign called "closed clovis", again due to the way the cable is mounted inside. It offered not only cable adjustment but also lever adjustment (not sure, maybe the generation before offered it as well) and offered a, I assume, 15° angle. Brompton says the open clovis design levers should be exchanged as they do no longer cables for it and with the wrong cable it may slip out of the lever/clovis (and the rider out of brake power).

2013 brought the modern, edgy brake levers that look a bit like Avid ones (but are a Brompton only design) and have a silver corpus along with black levers (exactly opposite than all generations before). They definitively increase brake power and handling massively to the better and are from my point of view highly recommended for any generation of brakes.

2017 brought a revision of these, they now offer mounting holes for the new gear shifters that were invented in 2017. Again, from 2015 on the levers are completely black with black edition models.

Other than that: Since about 2008 Brompton used Fibrax brake pads that enhanced the braking power and the rubber was exchangable in the carrier for any Dura Ace type brake pad. Jagwire compression free cables were invented with the S model, possibly as early as with it's invention in 2005, maybe a little later. Over time the other models got those, too.

So with any Brompton I personally would switch to the newer style levers and to better cables and brake pads as this will increase the brake power massively. With any MK2 I would seriously think about upgrading the calipers - it is expensive but again a massive boost in brake power. A fair amount of MK2s have been retrofitted already in the early 2000s as Brompton offered a retrofit kit - possibly knowing how bad their brakes were before the dual pivots.

 

[Blue Hills]

To be honest, never felt at all in danger with my pre 2000 brakes. The main irritation is the balancing of the pads. Probably not worth me changing them.
It's also short wheelbase I gather.
Can someone tell me what the advantage is of the longer wheelbase?
Am intrigued, since they kept the old one for so long.