Is there a electrician in the house?

[Deleted member 26715]

Just another thought, you say this is the hall light, is it also the landing light, there looks to be too many wires in that image behind the switch

 

[midlife]

That black dot on the mcb would make me wonder what's different to the others. Not an electrician but would be curious

 

[si_c]

Just another thought, you say this is the hall light, is it also the landing light, there looks to be too many wires in that image behind the switch

That was my thought, for a single switch there should be a Live (Red/Brown) going into the slot labelled COM and the sleeved Red/Brown going to the L1. Having a line to the L2 indicates that this is a dual position circuit.

Looking at the my first thought is it's wired incorrectly. You should have EITHER a single wire going to each slot OR two each in L1 and L2 and a single in COM.

In the first case the Live should be going to COM on one switch and the Switched Live (Sleeved Live) should be going to the COM on the other switch. In the second case you will have the same cable going to COM on each switch and one LIVE and one Switched Live running to the L1/L2 on one switch and a separate pair of wires joining the L1/L2 circuit.

Neither appears to be the case here, you have two live cables running to the L1 and separate L2/COM single wires (I'm assuming the L1/L2 orientation here I can't read from the switch).

At this point I'd be getting my continuity tester out and checking what actually runs where.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

This is how I think it should be wired, I believe this is a 2-way circuit with either another light upstairs or at the very least another switch at the other end of the hall. Your ceiling rose has the Live & Neutral coming in, it also has a Live & neutral going out to the next lighting rose. It then has a 2 core & earth going down to the switch, with a 3 core & earth going to the next switch. ut it still comes back to the fact your bulb should be across the black & the black with red tape. Earth not included in drawing

 

[si_c]

This is how I think it should be wired, I believe this is a 2-way circuit with either another light upstairs or at the very least another switch at the other end of the hall. Your ceiling rose has the Live & Neutral coming in, it also has a Live & neutral going out to the next lighting rose. It then has a 2 core & earth going down to the switch, with a 3 core & earth going to the next switch. ut it still comes back to the fact your bulb should be across the black & the black with red tape. Earth not included in drawing

View attachment 662184

Took me a moment to understand your switch orientation, but yeah that's about right.

 

[newts]

Have you tried switching the ground floor lights mcb off then back to see if it resets?

 

[classic33]

Thanks again!



The bulb's fine (and I've also checked with my desk lamp, which also works fine). Has the switch plate been off? Yes it has! I should have thought of that. The plasterers loosened it off. That's definitely one to check. "If you connected your bulb wires between the 3 reds & the 2 blacks is it constantly on?" No - it's constantly off. Nothing I've connected to that ceiling fitting seems to work, regardless of whether it's switched on or off.

Would I be right in thinking that since the switch stays happily in the 'on' position...

View attachment 662142

...this can't be a universal 'ground floor lights' issue, but must be localised to this one ceiling fitting? (With some problems in the past, the switch simply wouldn't stay 'on', but insisted on flipping back down until the problem had been dealt with.)

PS I've suddenly noticed, since posting this pic, the wee black bit in the middle of that - and only that - switch.

View attachment 662143

Does that mean anything? And if so, where should I start in looking for a solution?

Thanks again! Feel like I might be getting somewhere! Two steps forward, one step back...

It's in need of replacement
https://www.electriciansforums.net/threads/lighting-mcb-keeps-tripping.170714/post-1488918

Looking further it seems to be a known problem/issue with MK MCB's. Not very good.

 

[swee'pea99]

Once again, many thanks everyone - this is really helpful. Ok...

Have you tried switching the ground floor lights mcb off then back to see if it resets?

Yes, but it makes no odds. Thing is, if it had tripped, I'd understand it. (That's happened before, and meant I had to sort out a problem before the switch would stay in the 'on' position.) But it's on/untripped.

Just another thought, you say this is the hall light, is it also the landing light, there looks to be too many wires in that image behind the switch

It's just the hall light, but it is connected to two switches - you can turn it on/off using 'its own' switch, or the (double) one on the first floor landing.

Beyond that, the wiring diagrams and the like are over my head, but the essentials are, I've done nothing to anything in that ceiling fitting other than to remove a lamp from those two outermost contacts and put it back. All the other wiring is untouched, and exactly as it has been, working perfectly, for upwards of 20 years.

Please think about what I'm putting BEFORE you attempt it & be VERY happy doing it BEFORE doing it.

Switch off the power at the main CU, remove the cover of the CU, then next to the fuse you are working on is a spare 6A one, WITH THE POWER OFF unscrew the live & swap it over to the spare then put the power on & see if your lights work.

If you're not happy to do this then a Sparky is you next logical step.

Now this sounds very intriguing! Makes sense. So basically I'm abandoning the (black dot) circuit for the one next to it - currently labelled 'SPARE'. And if I understand you right, that means turning off the Big Red Switch, then removing the casing, presumably starting with the screws in the red circles....

...at which point it will be immediately obvious how to switch the ground floor lights from 'LIGHTS GROUND FLOOR' to 'SPARE' - with relabelling obviously, assuming it works.

Is that right?

Thanks again.

 

[newts]

I would strongly advise not to remove the cover on the main board, this is very dangerous & potentially lethal. I would call in an electrician who will check the wiring to the ceiling rose & the mcb.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

Once again, many thanks everyone - this is really helpful. Ok...


Yes, but it makes no odds. Thing is, if it had tripped, I'd understand it. (That's happened before, and meant I had to sort out a problem before the switch would stay in the 'on' position.) But it's on/untripped.


It's just the hall light, but it is connected to two switches - you can turn it on/off using 'its own' switch, or the (double) one on the first floor landing.

Beyond that, the wiring diagrams and the like are over my head, but the essentials are, I've done nothing to anything in that ceiling fitting other than to remove a lamp from those two outermost contacts and put it back. All the other wiring is untouched, and exactly as it has been, working perfectly, for upwards of 20 years.


Now this sounds very intriguing! Makes sense. So basically I'm abandoning the (black dot) circuit for the one next to it - currently labelled 'SPARE'. And if I understand you right, that means turning off the Big Red Switch, then removing the casing, presumably starting with the screws in the red circles....
View attachment 662304

...at which point it will be immediately obvious how to switch the ground floor lights from 'LIGHTS GROUND FLOOR' to 'SPARE' - with relabelling obviously, assuming it works.

Is that right?

Thanks again.

Yes, that is correct, but be aware that even when you have switched off the Red switch there is still a LIVE WIRE in there, if you follow it from your meter it will come to the top of the switch.

As above if you are not confident DO NOT DO this, but once inside you can simple undo the screw holding the wire into the 'black' MCB & then put the wire into the Spare MCB

 

[classic33]

Once again, many thanks everyone - this is really helpful. Ok...


Yes, but it makes no odds. Thing is, if it had tripped, I'd understand it. (That's happened before, and meant I had to sort out a problem before the switch would stay in the 'on' position.) But it's on/untripped.


It's just the hall light, but it is connected to two switches - you can turn it on/off using 'its own' switch, or the (double) one on the first floor landing.

Beyond that, the wiring diagrams and the like are over my head, but the essentials are, I've done nothing to anything in that ceiling fitting other than to remove a lamp from those two outermost contacts and put it back. All the other wiring is untouched, and exactly as it has been, working perfectly, for upwards of 20 years.


Now this sounds very intriguing! Makes sense. So basically I'm abandoning the (black dot) circuit for the one next to it - currently labelled 'SPARE'. And if I understand you right, that means turning off the Big Red Switch, then removing the casing, presumably starting with the screws in the red circles....
View attachment 662304

...at which point it will be immediately obvious how to switch the ground floor lights from 'LIGHTS GROUND FLOOR' to 'SPARE' - with relabelling obviously, assuming it works.

Is that right?

Thanks again.

What caused the MCB to fail though, and is there any guarantee that the one you switch to won't fail in a similar way?

 

[swee'pea99]

Yes, that is correct, but be aware that even when you have switched off the Red switch there is still a LIVE WIRE in there, if you follow it from your meter it will come to the top of the switch.

As above if you are not confident DO NOT DO this, but once inside you can simple undo the screw holding the wire into the 'black' MCB & then put the wire into the Spare MCB

Thanks. Wish me luck, I'm going in...

What caused the MCB to fail though, and is there any guarantee that the one you switch to won't fail in a similar way?

Don't know, none at all. Either way though, I'll learn something, and that has to be a move in the right direction, right?

Thanks again.

 

[fossyant]

Are you still with us. Boom !

 

[classic33]

Are you still with us. Boom !

No reply yet!

 

[Deleted member 26715]

Now I'm worried