Is this email okay?

[Crackedheadset]

Why are we as cyclists being so anal about this and confronting these people... someones going to get seriously hurt one day confronting drivers about their offences... you are not the police, if you turned round and starting bossing me around like that I would tell you where to go. Yes I know its illegal.. I know that it causes less attention on the road meaning we can get hit by car drivers on their phones.. but is it not our place to confront people unless they have actually offended us personally. You should just report videos to the police if you feel the need to without risking a beating from an angry motorist.

Also while your concentrating on getting his offence on your cam your not concentrating on the road in front of you either... swings and roundabouts

LOL, don't talk rubbish.

 

[Boris Bajic]

There may be something of a division in views here between the two following, broadly defined groups:

1. Those who accept that it is illegal but don't get particularly upset by this sort of mobile use (stop-start traffic, no junctions etc). This group may or may not comprise largely older, greyer cyclists who may be drivers themselves and may accept that in the real world there are greater roadgoing evils than the use of a mobile in a very low-risk situation.

2. Those who for perfectly valid reasons see any transgression as a significant danger and support those who feel they have a right or duty to advise transgressors of the error they have made and even publicise it in the Internet.

I fall into the first group; one or two of my friends the latter.

I do not see transgression (this or any other) in absolute terms. I do not accept that the actions of the van driver pose a significant (even quantifiable?) threat to the cyclist or any other road user in the circumstances shown in the video. I may be wrong, but that is how I see it.

I cannot get upset about a driver doing 68mph on an NSL stretch of single-carriageway road. However, I do object quite strongly to the same speed in a 30-limit zone.

Drivers doing 120mph on an otherwise empty M4 barely get a response from me, but a motorcycle closely passing my cycling son at that speed as he rides on the A40 between Brecon and Llandovery causes me some disquiet.

Life seems to be full of irritants and annoyances. If we don't choose our battles very carefully, we might end up very cross with just about everybody and spinning helplessly in a downward and chaotic vortex of our own moral inflexibility.

All of the above is probably Grade-A Bullsh*t, but it sums up my views nonetheless.

 

[gaz]

Gaz, there was never any danger there. The driver was shuffling along in traffic that was almost at a standstill. He was in full control of the van He would have been just as dangerous changing the radio channel or getting a sweet out of a packet.

Matthew had almost to swivel his head off to get a look at the guy on the phone.

I am 54 and have never had a cycle accident involving another vehicle. But now everyone wants a headcam in case they have an accident. I don`t buy that. I think a lot of riders want headcams to go out and do exactly what Matthew did here. To find other people doing things wrong.

Look on Youtube for motorcycle accidents or cycle accidents and I would imagine you will find a lot of film clips where the accident would not have happened if it was not being filmed by a headcam. It is not the headcam that is not concentrating, it is the head that it is on.

In the beginning webcams were to show us all images of what good rides you were doing but that all seems to be in the past. That is unless you go out and buy a very expensive HD Hero and those people tend to show good rides and not waste their money riding round to find van drivers on phones and other traffic offences.


Steve

Ahhhhhh so it's ok as long as it was safe...........

So driving whilst over the legal alcohol limit is ok, as long as you do it in almost standstill traffic.



Your post is strange... You seriously think people buy cameras, put them on their bikes and then go and crash, just to make a video. That is some strange thinking.

 

[Boris Bajic]

Ahhhhhh so it's ok as long as it was safe...........

So driving whilst over the legal alcohol limit is ok, as long as you do it in almost standstill traffic.

Your post is strange... You seriously think people buy cameras, put them on their bikes and then go and crash, just to make a video. That is some strange thinking.

Gaz, I am a fan of some of your Youtube helmetcammery and value your views on traffic issues, but I'm not sure your point about alcohol is a valid extension of SinD's view.

I too find the post unusual where it goes into motives for buying a camera or posting footage, but there is a kernel of logic in the mindset that questions the wisdom and motive of some helmetcammers.

Some (I mention no names) are madder than a box of frogs. Some provide a useful tool to help cyclists. Some may have something to gain from thinking about proportionate responses to fairly mundane issues.

 

[raindog]

I wouldn't mind betting that Matthew wishes he'd never started this thread.

 

[smokeysmoo]

Let me know when your ready to sell your Contour HD Matthew, I might be interested in one myself

 

[gaz]

Gaz, I am a fan of some of your Youtube helmetcammery and value your views on traffic issues, but I'm not sure your point about alcohol is a valid extension of SinD's view.

I too find the post unusual where it goes into motives for buying a camera or posting footage, but there is a kernel of logic in the mindset that questions the wisdom and motive of some helmetcammers.

Some (I mention no names) are madder than a box of frogs. Some provide a useful tool to help cyclists. Some may have something to gain from thinking about proportionate responses to fairly mundane issues.

Many studies have shown that driving whilst using a mobile phone is more dangerous than driving whilst over the legal limit for alcohol.
It is socially unacceptable to drive whilst drunk but the same can not be said for using a mobile phone.

I think it's a fair extension..

 

[subaqua]

Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer. I'm still waiting to find out how night shift HGV drivers are supposed to prevent boredom on long motorway journeys, other than talking to their pals on hands free phones .

sorry the drone of a retired know it all plod lorry driver who has to drive a car with single occupancy sent me to sleep.

 

[Andrew_P]

I wouldn't mind betting that Matthew wishes he'd never started this thread.

You would think so, but he has posted so many simialr threads with similar\identical reaction I think he enjoys it...

 

[subaqua]

Many studies have shown that driving whilst using a mobile phone is more dangerous than driving whilst over the legal limit for alcohol.
It is socially unacceptable to drive whilst drunk but the same can not be said for using a mobile phone.

I think it's a fair extension..

I linked to one in an earlier post. but theres a few who think that the law doesn't apply to them and still do it and protest when they get caught. bit like speeding .

 

[MontyVeda]

...
Life seems to be full of irritants and annoyances. If we don't choose our battles very carefully, we might end up very cross with just about everybody and spinning helplessly in a downward and chaotic vortex of our own moral inflexibility.

...

perfectly put

is "a downward and chaotic vortex of our own moral inflexibility." a Hawkwind LP?

 

[Boris Bajic]

Many studies have shown that driving whilst using a mobile phone is more dangerous than driving whilst over the legal limit for alcohol.
It is socially unacceptable to drive whilst drunk but the same can not be said for using a mobile phone.

I think it's a fair extension..

I cannot fault that statement as a logical extension of the words above it.

However, I draw a distinction which to my mind weakens it as an extension that can be applied universally or absolutely.

I unwrap Mars Bars while cycling. I do so (usually) under 20 mph and on quiet country roads. I would not do so (I hope) while descending in the Malvern Hills at 40mph+.

I find the former acceptable but the latter almost suicidal. I would also refrain from unwrapping choccies while riding hard in Inner London traffic.

There are no circumstances I am aware of when I would drive while under the influence of alcohol. I have discussed politics at the dinner table when tipsy; that is dangerous enough for me.

Nonetheless, I have taken calls when sitting in heavy, stop-start traffic. I dare say I will do so again. I am a cyclist and the father of cyclists. I do not think I'm above the law; I just make judgements and on occasion these are in conflict with the letter of the law. If I am charged for doing so, I will pay up with a smile as I have done several times for speeding.

I drive at 70 in a 60. On a bicycle I frequently roll slowly across a STOP line at a junction.

I quite understand why you make the extension from hand-held mobile-phone use to drunk driving. It is not wrong, but it is not a clear extension to me.

 

[Boris Bajic]

I linked to one in an earlier post. but theres a few who think that the law doesn't apply to them and still do it and protest when they get caught. bit like speeding .

I know nobody who thinks the law doesn't apply to them.

I know many who like to think they can get away with the odd infringement.

 

[gaz]

I cannot fault that statement as a logical extension of the words above it.

However, I draw a distinction which to my mind weakens it as an extension that can be applied universally or absolutely.

I unwrap Mars Bars while cycling. I do so (usually) under 20 mph and on quiet country roads. I would not do so (I hope) while descending in the Malvern Hills at 40mph+.

I find the former acceptable but the latter almost suicidal. I would also refrain from unwrapping choccies while riding hard in Inner London traffic.

There are no circumstances I am aware of when I would drive while under the influence of alcohol. I have discussed politics at the dinner table when tipsy; that is dangerous enough for me.

Nonetheless, I have taken calls when sitting in heavy, stop-start traffic. I dare say I will do so again. I am a cyclist and the father of cyclists. I do not think I'm above the law; I just make judgements and on occasion these are in conflict with the letter of the law. If I am charged for doing so, I will pay up with a smile as I have done several times for speeding.

I drive at 70 in a 60. On a bicycle I frequently roll slowly across a STOP line at a junction.

I quite understand why you make the extension from hand-held mobile-phone use to drunk driving. It is not wrong, but it is not a clear extension to me.

You eat mars bars....

 

[subaqua]

I know nobody who thinks the law doesn't apply to them.

I know many who like to think they can get away with the odd infringement.

driving holding a mobile isn't an odd infringement of the law , its kickin its doors in and blowin a raspberry in its face