It doesn't get much closer...
- Thread starter magnatom
- Start date
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Riding in Circles
Veteran
- Location
- EDINBURGH
My thoughts exactly, sun behind you, you were riding foolishly fast for the conditions, you are a narrow object that is easily lost in the glare of the sun, I don't think the drivers saw you at all until the very last moment, you were very lucky....this time.
what mikey said, cyclists have to ride at a safe speed too to be able to stop in case
I don;t think I'd have ridden down a road like that at 30 or even 25mph, at best not all all, there's a few roads I don;t ride any more because I find them naturally less safe than other, usually too many side roads with people pulling out or tunring in,
I don;t think I'd have ridden down a road like that at 30 or even 25mph, at best not all all, there's a few roads I don;t ride any more because I find them naturally less safe than other, usually too many side roads with people pulling out or tunring in,
Origamist
Legendary Member
That was indeed close and you were lucky not to be taken out.
A good rule of thumb is that if the first car doesn't see you, it's even less likely the following car will have spotted you. I note in the video you watch the first car after its turned right - try to stop yourself doing this. I know it's not easy, as it's a natural reaction to watch an "offending" vehicle disappear into the distance, but you're always very vulnerable when doing so, particulalry when negotiating a junction with a low sun in the sky.
Like others have said, you need to adjust your riding/speed when dealing with a low sun. For example, if the sun is in my eyes and affecting visibility, I will gutter hug (i.e ride 30cm or less) from the road edge as I do not want to be in the left tyre track. In the past, I have pulled in or changed route. When I used to commute through Dartmoor, I'd leave the road and go cross country when the sun dazzled me.
Of course, it could be that the sun was not significantly affecting the drivers' view of the road ahead and it was a "classic" double whammy, junction SMIDSY - however, if this was the case, it would make me think how I tackle downhills (i.e my speed) in residential areas that have light controlled junctions/turning traffic.
A good rule of thumb is that if the first car doesn't see you, it's even less likely the following car will have spotted you. I note in the video you watch the first car after its turned right - try to stop yourself doing this. I know it's not easy, as it's a natural reaction to watch an "offending" vehicle disappear into the distance, but you're always very vulnerable when doing so, particulalry when negotiating a junction with a low sun in the sky.
Like others have said, you need to adjust your riding/speed when dealing with a low sun. For example, if the sun is in my eyes and affecting visibility, I will gutter hug (i.e ride 30cm or less) from the road edge as I do not want to be in the left tyre track. In the past, I have pulled in or changed route. When I used to commute through Dartmoor, I'd leave the road and go cross country when the sun dazzled me.
Of course, it could be that the sun was not significantly affecting the drivers' view of the road ahead and it was a "classic" double whammy, junction SMIDSY - however, if this was the case, it would make me think how I tackle downhills (i.e my speed) in residential areas that have light controlled junctions/turning traffic.
hackbike 666
Guest
Sorry mags but I agree with this....
P.S I saw the second car in your vid...(first time)
Seriously I was expecting something to fly out of every turning in that video....
...than this.
[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cS3IDsEIlg[/media]
I scrubbed enough speed to pass the first car, but I didn't expect the second.
speed over 30mph?
What was the speed limit on that road, I see the street lights but no limit signs.
What would you consider a prudent speed for a car to travel along that road or pass through that junction?
hackbike 666
Guest
Junctions are always dodgy as cars turn there (no 5h1t sherlock)...depending on the junction of course....but even when they aren't supposed to they can also tend to turn anyway or do something unexpected...
JoysOfSight
Active Member
+1.
Says it all really. You're fully in the right, but that's going to be small consolation next time.
I also *thought* you were going too fast at the start, for that road. But, I'm willing to accept that the reality isn't like the video, as I know it can be deceptive.
well, i think the point here is that Mags was totally in the right, neither car should have turned and, if they couldn't see because of the sun, they should have been more cautious. In a court of law, it was his right of way.
however, i think we can all learn from this one, especially the newbies... check your position against the sun... if your shadow is in front of you oncoming traffic may not see you. If you can't see your shadow, those drivers up your ass probabably can't see you. front and rear flashing lights on in low sun conditions, yes? and watch out for those sheep!
and that's just given me another topic for my cycle safety talks at work. Cheers Mag!
however, i think we can all learn from this one, especially the newbies... check your position against the sun... if your shadow is in front of you oncoming traffic may not see you. If you can't see your shadow, those drivers up your ass probabably can't see you. front and rear flashing lights on in low sun conditions, yes? and watch out for those sheep!
and that's just given me another topic for my cycle safety talks at work. Cheers Mag!
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
Dude, I'm sorry I came across so harshly. It's only because I care.
It would probably be 30mph in that case. Residential, low level street lights less than x distance & no speed limit signs. Not sure if you sere being sarcastic though, so apologies if you did know.
Especially at BM's apology for being so harsh! Actually, I have a bit of an apology to make. I've done a little experiment with this video. A few weeks ago a friend of mine, having looked at my videos (and liking what I do) made a comment that I had a following. By that he meant that there was a group of people who always seemed to agree with what I said, no matter what. I didn't entirely agree with him, but I had noticed in the past that on occasion some people didn't like to point out obvious mistakes I had made, and always focused on what others had done wrong. I've always wanted discussions to be fair, and by that I mean for everyone to feel free to point out my mistakes, without worrying about upsetting me. I'm a big boy....(oo-er!
)So after my incident the other day (which did shake me up a fair bit at the time), I thought I would play down any possible issues with my riding, and try and focus on what the drivers did wrong, to see what sort of reaction I would get.
I must admit I was surprised a little by how long it took for folk to point out my obvious complicity in the incident.
The fact is that although I did slow a little and perhaps enough to avoid the first car, I had not anticipated the second car at all. My speed was obviously a factor in this, as was the angle of the sun (although I did try to discount that a little
). I like to think I am an above average cyclist when it comes to cycling safely. Obviously over the last few years I've thought about it a lot. However, even the best cyclist with the best intentions can make mistakes. I obviously did here.
What have I learned for this? To pay more attention to factors that can affect the view of drivers for a start. I didn't take the suns position into account. Taking approaches to junctions slower, no matter how much fun it is to zoom through them (and that one is fun). Finally, I reminded myself of the most important thing that IMO a cyclist should always remember: Never, ever, EVER, assume that a driver has seen you. It doesn't matter if you have the brightest light, the most contrasty hi-viz, or even if you are right in their field of view 50cm in front of their car. Always assume that you might have been missed, or ignored.
Buggi, I am also really pleased that you use my videos in cycle safety talks. I think there are some excellent examples of do's and don'ts in my collection. I'd love to write a talk myself, using my videos as part of the talk. I love doing presentations and if there was enough call for it, I'd happily offer my services....for a small fee of course!
P.S. If you bothered to actually read what I wrote previously (and in the video) I said it is possible to get over 30mph here. I didn't say I was. I estimate I was at about 30mph coming down the hill and probably about 25mph across the junction. Not braking the speed limit, but with hindsight, too fast for the conditions.
HLaB
Marie Attoinette Fan
There's being right and their being dead, take care out there Magnatom. The worse junction I've found for something similar is uncontrolled (George IV Br at Chamber Street). Although as in the picture I'm going straight on G the IV; I've found that Chambers Street is a magnet for drivers turning right across my path (it probably got something to do with all the parking available). Its almost North to South so the sun isn't an issue but Ive found Ive got to get the speed right, too slow a dozen folk will make the right turn but you have to proceed at a reasonable rate but with caution there.
Oh nowhere near as close or as fast and going directly south to north (again no sun) I had this a while back
Oh nowhere near as close or as fast and going directly south to north (again no sun) I had this a while back
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