Just seen a Range Rover Evoque

[Norm]

I always laugh at this argument that "i need one I live in the countryside", I have lived in rural locations nearly all my life, for may years up a remote valley. And nobody needs a 4x4.

I don't think I need one because I live in the countryside, I think I need one because I live on a farm.

Am I allowed?

 

[Cubist]

I don't think I need one because I live in the countryside, I think I need one because I live on a farm.

Am I allowed?

I'm sure if you give the "people who decide who should have what car" you full details and a breakdown of when and how you intend to use it they might make some concessions, but it's looking dodgy I'm afraid.

 

[Norm]

I guess it's kinda lucky that the only person who features in deciding what car I'm allowed to have is Mrs Norm and she jumped at the chance even faster than I did.

 

[Cubist]

But by your argument Reiver, all 4x4's should be utilitarian workhorses only. Ok. In that case I will restrict my 4x4 to off-road use only (having checked the interweb to ensure it is indeed a legitimate use by all concerned) and then buy ANOTHER car for transporting the family, going shopping, going on holiday etc. That would only increase the environmental damage I do by owning cars in the first place wouldn't it?

I agree that larger vehicles pose a larger potential threat, but they have a footprint broadly similar to a large estate car or sports saloons and people carriers, and I don't see vitriol aimed at drivers of these so often. Their mass is largely irrelevant in that case.

Your assertion that they are "often driven by the aggressive and pompous" is backed up by good old solid evidence in your case is it?

I guess what I am trying to say is what I asserted in the first place. If I were to meet you, Reiver, and after that particular encounter form an earnestly held belief that all people of your skin colour, creed, class and habits are complete idiots, then posted those beliefs on a cycling chatroom I would be (quite rightly ) castigated.

I refer you to my "Let's take people as we find them, and not let our prejudices expose us as bigots. " post

 

[david1701]

Would you own one if its speed was limited to, lets say 56mph (same as HGVs) ?

Of course these vehicles have their uses and probably non of these uses involves going above 50mph. The vast majority of large 4x4s have no real purpose on the road, because of their mass they not only pose an unnecessary danger to other road users they are also very environmentally damaging. And the fact they are often driven by the aggressive and pompous makes there danger 10x worse.

Must put my cards on the table here; I have owned a 4x4, I done a chassis up restoration of a series 2, and I loved off roading. But that was many years ago and I have since seen the light

Oh and one last thing, this "Range Rover prEvoque" appears to be very very low on emmisions, so under my "made up" rules would be allowed. But then again I don't have a problem with the smaller 4x4s

I think this is a city thing, I've never had a close overtake from an off roader, the only time I've been scared was a girl racer one time and my sister trying to hold a conversation with a me while coming past.

oh and the series 3 has its own limit to 56mph

 

[Arch]

Whoa there XMister, there's a #4......me! I need space to carry my bikes inside the pick-up bit (I don't like the idea of them hanging off the back of a Freelander etc) and also for various jobs that involve going to builders yards, the local tip (doing my bit to keep environmentally unfriendly bin trucks off the road, natch) plus assorted other errands that 'her indoors' needs doing. No school runs, by the way...I am as anti school run as most sane-minded people.
I try to drive considerately but like everybody else have my moments. My Mitsi has a 2.4 turbocharged diesel engine and gets nearly 40mpg on a very good run. That's not too bad up against many small or medium sized cars that would be utterly useless to me.

I know someone who does all of that, with a Skoda estate car, and usually gets 60ish mpg if I remember rightly.

Not sure how you taking your rubbish to the tip keeps bin lorries off the road, they have to do their rounds anyway...

Yes, there are plenty of people who benefit from the advantages of a proper 4x4, but come on guys, we all know there are a significant number of people who buy them purely for the pose value, and who wouldn't be all that safe behind the wheel of a pedal car, let alone something as huge and cut off from the rest of the world* as a modern '4x4' (even if it only two wheel drive. The point is that they want, or think they need, something built like a tank with aggressive styling, in order to drive 3 miles around town.) We all tend to remember the close misses more than the considerate passes, and a close miss in something as big as a '4x4' is even more memorable than a close miss by a tiddly little Saxo or something.

I'd have a proper old Landy, but if I was in a position to get something new and expensive, I'd stick to an estate.

*all modern cars are too cut off from the world for my liking. Take out the sound proofing and the crumple zones, and see how people drive when they have a real feeling of their speed and vulnerability.

 

[Cubist]

Yes some people would need two vehicles which is not a good thing, however I guess the vast majority would not, the overall environmental impact would be greatly improved. What is the pressing reason for you owning a 4x4?

I don't want to sound arrogant, but I can justify owning one to myself, and in my world that is all that's needed.

4x4s are usually much heavier than other such sized vehicles, therefor they waste fuel, taking a 3 ton truck on the school run is a ridiculous waste of energy.

Taking any motorised vehicle on the school run is a ridiculous waste of energy, but when the kids were small, and we lived beyond walking distance to school, I only had a 4x4 to take them in. Now they get on the bus, or walk the three miles to and from school.

Apologies that sort of come out wrong, what I meant was the larger 4x4s are often driven in a aggressive and pompous manner

Which still lacks proper evidence. It is based solely on value-laden subjectivity.

But this is exactly what I have done, I have taken other road users as I have found them, 15 years ago I loved my series 2 Land Rover, 3 years ago I had no opinion on 4x4s, Since taking up cycling, my life has been compromised so many times by this class of vehicle I am now very worried when I see them on the road.

If this is the case then I have a certain amount of empathy. This personal experience does not, however, give you or any one else for that matter, the right to label me as pompous, arrogant or dangerous.

And I don't hate all 4x4ers, probably most are as courteous as any other road user. Indeed


But from my experiences there are a lot of 4x4ers out there that don't give a dam about any body else. It has got to the stage with me that if I know there is a shooting party about to pass, I get off the bike. Careful now, we're heading to class warrior territory, and we've been avoiding that so far. Do I become more pompous and dangerous when I'm wearing a tweed cap?

And the only other time I do that is when I am about to be passed by a logging convoy, logging convoys take the biscuit round here for reckless driving. IMO.

Sorry if this comes across negatively Reiver, I did read what you said in your post earlier. I don't do "rude" if I can help it.

I'm off to work I'm afraid, so sorry if I appear to have hijacked the thread, tossed in a grenade and buggered of!

 

[Arch]

Do I become more pompous and dangerous when I'm wearing a tweed cap?

Doesn't everyone?

Don't mess with me when I've got a deerstalker on, I'll rip your arm off and beat you over the head with the soggy end.

 

[Smokin Joe]

If 4x4's piss people off so much, I think I'll get one next time I change cars.

 

[david1701]

Doesn't everyone?

Don't mess with me when I've got a deerstalker on, I'll rip your arm off and beat you over the head with the soggy end.

I'm wearing a tweed suit right now and I have issues controlling the RAGE

 

[Cubist]

Doesn't everyone?

Don't mess with me when I've got a deerstalker on, I'll rip your arm off and beat you over the head with the soggy end.

Whilst lashing you with the thin end of a labrador

 

[Cubist]

If 4x4's piss people off so much, I think I'll get one next time I change cars.

You've rumbled my "pressing need" Smokin' Joe.

 

[snailracer]

In a free society, people are free to choose what car they drive, but others are free to express their opinions about those choices because the choices made have direct impact on everyone else. One's choice of car, or whether to drive at all, is not a purely "personal" choice.

 

[Cubist]

I'm wearing a tweed suit right now and I have issues controlling the RAGE

I know what you mean. I put it down to the unlined Harris boxers.

 

[Cubist]

In a free society, people are free to choose what car they drive, but others are free to express their opinions about those choices because the choices made have direct impact on everyone else. One's choice of car, or whether to drive at all, is not a purely "personal" choice.

Opinions, yes, prejudice and bigotry, no!