Languages - any one speak any novelty languages?

[byegad]

Bona omi

I'm going to troll out of here, the trade is getting a bit rough duckie. So I'm off to the Marine Commando's Club.

 

[yello]

Pardon my ignorance, but I take it sign language is not universal, right? e.g. Is the UK/English sign for water the same as the French sign for the same word?
I wonder how well an English person and a French person (for example) are able to converse via sign language.

You're right. French sign is actually closer to American sign than British - for reasons of history.

In truth, it's probably strictly speaking incorrect to talk of British or American or French sign. As with spoken language there's no real respect for borders or boundaries. Sign languages have dialects and accents just as oral languages do. Historically, sign languages sprang up spontaneously in areas of need and only later were they formalised in a national sign - so variations understandably exist. For me, it's a fascinating subject. Did you know for instance that the community of Martha's Vineyard (Cape Cod, Mass, USA) the hearing community use sign as well? They are bilingual - oral and sign. Due to hereditary deafness, there is (or was) a large deaf community there, this meant that the hearing community learnt sign quite naturally when growing up. Cool huh?

 

[glasgowcyclist]

The verb 'drimble' is no longer much escalpulated in a strictly linguistically preaxulated sense, but still holds some empastual verimacity as a carrier of corbic meaning. It is a null vixcentior, not unlike some other transic verbs.

You are Professor Stanley Unwin and I claim my £5!


GC

 

[laurence]

You're right. French sign is actually closer to American sign than British - for reasons of history.

In truth, it's probably strictly speaking incorrect to talk of British or American or French sign. As with spoken language there's no real respect for borders or boundaries. Sign languages have dialects and accents just as oral languages do. Historically, sign languages sprang up spontaneously in areas of need and only later were they formalised in a national sign - so variations understandably exist. For me, it's a fascinating subject. Did you know for instance that the community of Martha's Vineyard (Cape Cod, Mass, USA) the hearing community use sign as well? They are bilingual - oral and sign. Due to hereditary deafness, there is (or was) a large deaf community there, this meant that the hearing community learnt sign quite naturally when growing up. Cool huh?

there are regional 'dialects'. i was taught the letter T in one way, other people use a different sign. also, some town names vary from region to region - usually a slightly derogatory sign from a rival town.

there are also industrial communities that use Sign as the factories were too noisy for conversation, so the would use BSL (or a variant).

American sign is done one handed - presumably so they can carry on eating doughnuts as they sign.

some non-signs have also crept into BSL... the V sign isn't a BSL insult, but is used now... in fact, the way to sign numbers is with the palm towards you, so signing '2' can cause problems to a non-BSL user - i've done this.

 

[donnydave]

The verb 'drimble' is no longer much escalpulated in a strictly linguistically preaxulated sense, but still holds some empastual verimacity as a carrier of corbic meaning. It is a null vixcentior, not unlike some other transic verbs.

In that case, I'm anispeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused you such pericombobulation.

 

[Maz]

it's probably strictly speaking incorrect to talk of British or American or French sign.

Pardon the pun.

 

[Maz]

In that case, I'm anispeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused you such pericombobulation.

Black Adder...Dick and Dictionary [?]. Classic!
'Sausage'? 'SAUSAGE!'

 

[cisamcgu]

I have a small, but working knowledge of Tongan (having lived in Tonga for a few years a long time ago) - I can safely say it has been of very little benefit since

 

[Amanda P]

there are regional 'dialects'. i was taught the letter T in one way, other people use a different sign. also, some town names vary from region to region - usually a slightly derogatory sign from a rival town.

there are also industrial communities that use Sign as the factories were too noisy for conversation, so the would use BSL (or a variant).

American sign is done one handed - presumably so they can carry on eating doughnuts as they sign.

some non-signs have also crept into BSL... the V sign isn't a BSL insult, but is used now... in fact, the way to sign numbers is with the palm towards you, so signing '2' can cause problems to a non-BSL user - i've done this.

Mrs Uncle Phil started to learn BSL, and some of it found its way on to me - there's a guy at work who signs.

I rather enjoy those 'slang' signs for towns. The 'screw loose' one for London and 'hanging' (complete with tongue out) for Hartlepool in particular. I'm sure there are others just as amusing.

There's also (I think) a tendency to spell out a word for which there's no agreed sign the first time you use it, but then just to give a double-tapped letter sign on subsequent mentions. I think of this in translation as "the M-thing" or "the L-thing".

Mrs Uncle Phil is pretty good in Afrikaans. That's useful in South Africa (although there aren't many folk there who can't speak a bit of English. Some who just won't though) and in the Netherlands, although she must sound strange to Dutch people. But when we're travelling she has a tendency to grab for Afrikaans phrases rather than whatever the appropriate language is. By doing this, she has discovered Afrikaans speakers in some most unlikely parts of the world. These South Africans get everywhere!

 

[Shut Up Legs]

There is much to recommend Corporate as a language. I am still on the nursery slopes of a steep learning curve in that tongue, but it features prominently in a basket of key skills that I am hoping very much to lay out as my key deliverables in a wide-ranging strategy encompassing an holistic move forward as we seek further positively-vectored growth in this new and unfolding, enriched customer environment.

To think otherwise would be suicide in today's fast-moving business environment. I think it is a lesson you need very much to take on board.

 

[laurence]

Mrs Uncle Phil started to learn BSL, and some of it found its way on to me - there's a guy at work who signs.

I rather enjoy those 'slang' signs for towns. The 'screw loose' one for London and 'hanging' (complete with tongue out) for Hartlepool in particular. I'm sure there are others just as amusing.

There's also (I think) a tendency to spell out a word for which there's no agreed sign the first time you use it, but then just to give a double-tapped letter sign on subsequent mentions. I think of this in translation as "the M-thing" or "the L-thing".

London is 'noisy', but i know what you mean.Town names can be interesting as they hark back to some local renown - Hartlepool, as you say, is the hanging sign because of the 'monkey hangers' nickname. Leicester is similar to Leeds, in that it's a pulling of the neck, but no idea why. Preston (if i remember correctly) derives from priest in the BSL name.

some Signs are used many times, so it's the context that is important. also, BSL isn't just english in sign (that is Sign Supported English), but has its own structure. learning it is pretty hard and for the exams i did i was filmed having a five minute conversation and i had to include various sentence elements. you also have to make good use of 'space' and facial expressions! it can be hard for a true, reserved brit.

 

[Boris Bajic]

London is 'noisy', but i know what you mean.Town names can be interesting as they hark back to some local renown - Hartlepool, as you say, is the hanging sign because of the 'monkey hangers' nickname. Leicester is similar to Leeds, in that it's a pulling of the neck, but no idea why. Preston (if i remember correctly) derives from priest in the BSL name.

some Signs are used many times, so it's the context that is important. also, BSL isn't just english in sign (that is Sign Supported English), but has its own structure. learning it is pretty hard and for the exams i did i was filmed having a five minute conversation and i had to include various sentence elements. you also have to make good use of 'space' and facial expressions! it can be hard for a true, reserved brit.

I recall the use of signs for various well-known global figures became quite political - it may still be so.

The sign for Gorbachev when he was prominent in World Affairs was a reference to the birthmark on his face. This upset some users of sign language, as it was defining him in a way that some might see as negative.

I don't know how that one ended up (I doubt he's spoken of any longer outside history classes), but there were others where the accepted sign for the individual was somehow derogatory.

 

[laurence]

I recall the use of signs for various well-known global figures became quite political - it may still be so.

The sign for Gorbachev when he was prominent in World Affairs was a reference to the birthmark on his face. This upset some users of sign language, as it was defining him in a way that some might see as negative.

I don't know how that one ended up (I doubt he's spoken of any longer outside history classes), but there were others where the accepted sign for the individual was somehow derogatory.

it also applies to countries - China used to relate to 'slant eyes', but has been changed. Germany is still one finger raised from the top of the head, a la WWI military helmets.

 

[Dayvo]

The chief techno bod of the Norwegian Lighthouse authority (Coast Directorate) asked me if I spoke Norwegian. When I told I didn't he said it was very easy. "Even our children can learn it."

Makes me laugh to hear my Finnish mate in Finland talk to his dog. How ANYONE can understand Finnish amazes me, let alone bloody pets!

 

[Amanda P]

Makes me laugh to hear my Finnish mate in Finland talk to his dog. How ANYONE can understand Finnish amazes me, let alone bloody pets!

I worked in Finland for a bit and began to understand bits of it.

My Finnish colleague mentioned that, in Finland, if someone is said to be 'speaking Norwegian' it usually means they're so drunk they're throwing up...