Left-turning cyclists could be exempt from stop signs

[magnatom]

They do work well but unfortunately in other countries.

I thought there was a successful experiment down in London?

 

[Origamist]

I thought there was a successful experiment down in London?

Everyone must have me on ignore:

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=427870&postcount=1

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=402305&postcount=24

Brighton has just utilized the concept too.

 

[atbman]

Actually I'm not so sure. It works quite well in certain States in the US.

Not necessarily. Pedestrians going about their lawful business on crosswalks get clobbered, as do cyclists going across the junction on their lawful green. Common complaint on www.bikeforums.thingy

 

[Origamist]

Call to change the law: Boris Johnson believes it will make cyclists safer

Cyclists should be allowed to run red lights, says Boris


http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...owed+to+run+red+lights,+says+Boris/article.do

 

[magnatom]

Eeeeek!

He wants to encourage cyclists to left filter up queues of traffic, possibly with HGVs at the front of the queue. That's great if the cyclist times the lights right, but all it takes is one mistake...

We do NOT need another reason for cyclists to feel justified in left filtering (although this would happen indirectly, it would happen) up to traffic lights. We need to get the message across that you DO NOT need to filter to the front for your own safety. This is a red herring!

 

[thomas]

Thats what I thought. I actually think that this idea could work. It seems to in the States.

Yep, Jermey Clarkson describes it as "the one thing america has done for the civilised world" .

I quite like the idea to be honest, as long as people only turn left when sensible.

To go straight on, turn left, do a u-turn, then turn left on the set of lights which is green

 

[John the Monkey]

... as long as people only turn left when sensible.

Hmm.

Judging by the stunts I see people pulling on my commute already, I don't hold out much hope.

 

[thomas]

Hmm.

Judging by the stunts I see people pulling on my commute already, I don't hold out much hope.

Yeah, but you get problems everywhere...I think it's a good idea and it would be something I would follow sensibly.

 

[marinyork]

I can only see it working well on the straight on T junction (or pseudo T junction) red such as supermarkets and things where it's very fashionable to slot in a set of lights on a main road. Some lefts might work, some might not.

 

[thomas]

I can only see it working well on the straight on T junction (or pseudo T junction) red such as supermarkets and things where it's very fashionable to slot in a set of lights on a main road. Some lefts might work, some might not.

You can have "no left on red" signs when it just isn't suitable.

 

[marinyork]

You can have "no left on red" signs when it just isn't suitable.

True but that'd be on most junctions and you'd get loads of variation in how authorities implemented it. I just think this as I see it all the time with no right turns or no entry for cyclists. Authorities are quite lazy at putting up exceptions, even when it makes sense.

I'd have thought it would be better to try and define like I have, a set of junctions you could apply it to, put the onus on a cyclist not to have a collision, especially with a ped, rather than the more general thing. Nor do I think the T junction thing is a waste of time, there are quite a lot of the things knocking around.

 

[magnatom]

Answer me this;

Is it safer to filter to the very front of a queue (and risk problems if the lights change), or is it safer to filter and slot in a few cars back from the front of the queue?

In my opinion (and I know others agree with this) there is absolutely no need to be at the front of the queue from a safety standpoint. Therefore, there is no need for cyclists to be allowed to run certain red lights.

 

[marinyork]

I think that's a bit naughty magnatom. There are plenty of occasions to argue about red lights that are nothing to do with long queues of traffic, it's trying to take this thread the same direction as the other one.

The sort of T junctions I've described have very little to do with queues of traffic, although interestingly enough one way round it is to introduce cycle lanes that bypass the lights or use them in an unconventional manner. I used to go through a set of lights that was permanently on green for cyclists and buses and you rejoined giving way with the rest of the road a short time later.

 

[magnatom]

I think that's a bit naughty magnatom. There are plenty of occasions to argue about red lights that are nothing to do with long queues of traffic, it's trying to take this thread the same direction as the other one.

The sort of T junctions I've described have very little to do with queues of traffic, although interestingly enough one way round it is to introduce cycle lanes that bypass the lights or use them in an unconventional manner. I used to go through a set of lights that was permanently on green for cyclists and buses and you rejoined giving way with the rest of the road a short time later.

Naughty? Only a little. I'm trying to think how it would work practically, remembering that Boris seems to be suggesting that this is for all junctions (it could be bad reporting).

The problem is, as soon as you suggest something is ok, sometimes, that opens up a can of worms, and before you know it cyclists would use it as an excuse to run the red to turn left everywhere (unless there were specific prohibition signs which I doubt would ever happen on a large scale, think of the costs.....).

It would also help to reinforce the belief that a cyclist is safest at the front (when there is queuing traffic) which would lead some cyclists into the most dangerous situation that they could be in.

So I would find it very hard to support such a scheme. Lets keep the rules simple, there is no need to complicate matters any further, when it is difficult enough to police the current rules, IMO.

 

[thomas]

Answer me this;
Is it safer to filter to the very front of a queue (and risk problems if the lights change), or is it safer to filter and slot in a few cars back from the front of the queue?

You don't need to be at the front of every queue, but when there isn't a queue, being able to turn left when safe would be nice! I think it's a pretty sensible thing in general (don't just restrict it to cyclists).

I accept it would be abused...in the same way people run ambers...then the start of reds.