Lights, how much is a life worth?

[mjr]

Wooh there stroppy! How high is your horse? Do you always feel the need to lecture people?
You say I 'worry' and these people 'cause me a problem'
Where in my comments did I mention these facts! I merely mentioned if they spent a fiver on some cheap lights they would at least be visible!

You seemed worried about it enough to suggest they're some sort of problem in the opening post, opening with a lecture that people should spend £5 on non-legal junk lights that will make them little safer because won't somebody please think of the families and so on. I'm mainly trying to push back HARD against such emotive claptrap and suggest we focus on what actually injures riders instead.

So they weren't invisible?

Of course not, who said they were?

You did, with words like "they would at least be visible". They're not invisible, else you wouldn't have seen them. If they were visible but you didn't see them, then maybe you weren't looking, or maybe your own lights are useless not-legal £5 bucket shop jobbies? Maybe obsessing about other people's lights is misdirected self-loathing?

 

[cd365]

How are £5 lights non-legal?

 

[mjr]

How are £5 lights non-legal?

Most commonly, by having a steady mode that doesn't meet the British Standards or equivalent (most often German, Danish or Dutch - there are very few British Standard lights available any more). They aren't necessarily illegal unless they're dazzling (unlikely for £5) but aren't sufficient to make a bike legal at night. Full detail: http://www.ctc.org.uk/cyclists-library/regulations/lighting-regulations

 

[G3CWI]

Full detail: http://www.ctc.org.uk/cyclists-library/regulations/lighting-regulations

Interesting link. I suspect that some "serious" cyclist don't conform to all of the points. Pedal reflectors being something that few probably have. I run with lots of lights but I'm not sure which, if any, are marked as required.

 

[cd365]

I'm sure there are lots of lights you can buy under £5 which conform to the standards.
Would be nice if websites printed the details if they did or not.

 

[steveindenmark]

I have never been berrated for someone else not having lights on their bike. But just to make it fair, i have never berrated a driver for someone else being caught for drink driving.

Look after yourself and let the others get on with their lives.

 

[G3CWI]

Look after yourself and let the others get on with their lives.

Except that some of the behaviours that you cite have the potential to seriously impact on third parties.

 

[vickster]

Except that some of the behaviours that you cite have the potential to seriously impact on third parties.

Including drivers

 

[Globalti]

You may be lit up like a Christmas tree but on a wet night with reflections from the road, background lights cluttering the scene and rain drops and mist on drivers' side windows all those lights won't make any difference to a stressed driver in a hurry who sees what he thinks is a gap in the traffic and pulls out. Even wearing a flouro juju jacket, the modern equivalent to the old St Christopher medal, won't save you.

Years of motorcycling in all weathers taught me never to trust anybody, always look for wheel rotation and cover brakes and horn and not to move straight towards a driver, presenting a stationary object, but to move out across their field of vision.

 

[mjr]

I'm sure there are lots of lights you can buy under £5 which conform to the standards.
Would be nice if websites printed the details if they did or not.

Why would they print details that might discourage purchasing?

It goes deeper than the websites. Have a look when you're next in the shops, but I think you may be disappointed. The only big cycling store I've noticed selling any standard lights in the last few years is Evans and those models (some Cateye lights with a D suffix) aren't on their website any longer. The German-owned supermarkets sometimes have some in their sales at a reasonable price, but not all the time.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Cheers, I just cannot understand anybody wanting to ride on a road at night without lights, this morning on my way to work at 5am I saw at least 6 doing this.

and there's your answer.

 

[KneesUp]

Cheers, I just cannot understand anybody wanting to ride on a road at night without lights, this morning on my way to work at 5am I saw at least 6 doing this. If they were £50 a set then I could see why people would be put off,

and there's your answer.

You assume that there weren't some other riders who were not seen, who otherwise would have been if they'd made an effort?

Seemingly unlike most people on here, I drive and ride. It scares the beejesus out of me when people ride without lights because they're harder to see. You can spin it however you like and say I should be driving in a way that means I don't have to be able to see everyone or whatever, but it doesn't change the physics - light shows up well against a dark background. I'm a careful driver (23 years, lots of miles, no accidents) but if you can't see cyclists there is more chance you'll hit them. It's ludicrous to suggest otherwise.

 

[MontyVeda]

...
I'm a careful driver (23 years, lots of miles, no accidents) but if you can't see cyclists there is more chance you'll hit them. It's ludicrous to suggest otherwise.

but you can should see them... if you're driving in an attentive manner. I'm sure there's plenty of other unlit objects you also manage not to hit whilst you're driving too.

 

[KneesUp]

but you can should see them... if you're driving in an attentive manner. I'm sure there's plenty of other unlit objects you also manage not to hit whilst you're driving too.

I can't think of many unlit objects that are on the carriageway in the dark and move. Can you?

Think of it the other way around. Would you be happy for cars, buses and lorries to not have lights?

 

[Thomk]

I wonder what happens when two cyclists without lights approach each other in the dark at a junction...