Lights, how much is a life worth?

[G3CWI]

Harder to see some things sometimes at night?

...not the moon and stars.

 

[John the Monkey]

...and relax.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jzx664u5DA

 

[Dan B]

On a clear road with no cars coming towards you with glaring headlights you'll have better vision to see the heroic ninja but when it's raining and the other side of the road is just a wall of light from passing cars then probably not as much.

So if I may paraphrase: although in the absence of other road users it would be safe to ride an unlit bicycle, the excess of light from other road users makes it unsafe not to add to that excess by getting some lights of your own. The only way to make it safe for yourself is to contribute to making it less safe for everyone?

I'm part of the problem myself (I'm a parent, and therefore a coward), but I'm assuredly not going to start complaining about people who refuse to be part of that arms race. Especially given that cyclists have to carry or generate their own power source wherease motorists have mechanically propelled vehicles to carry theirs around in, it doesn't seem like a race where anyone using a human-powered vehicle is going to come out ahead.

 

[Globalti]

We drove into Preston city centre last night at about 6.15 and in a couple of minutes in a half mile length of New Hall Lane, approaching the inner ring road we saw:

1 person dressed entirely in black riding a mountain bike with no lights, suddenly off the pavement, straight across a crossing in front of the car in front of us forcing us both to brake hard.

5 people dressed entirely in black riding BMXs, not a single light between them, in a loose group up the road.

2 people dressed entirely in black riding mountain bikes, not a single light between them, along the pavement.

1 person dressed entirely in black riding a mountain bike, no lights, off the pavement and diagonally acoss the ring road junction to the opposite pavement, in between the changing of the traffic lights.

With the crossing user in particular there was a strong feeling of defiance and "hit me if you dare" in the way the rider suddenly swung acoss the crossing forcing emergency stops.

We concluded that some of the inhabitants of Preston are either extremely stupid or have joined some kind of mass death wish cult.

 

[winjim]

For the first time in ages I wore high viz on the way to work this morning. Not deliberately, but because I have a windproof that just happens to be high viz. I also left a bit early so I saw more cyclists than usual, mostly dressed in similar garb. It just made me feel like I was being weirdly passive aggressive. I think I'll invest in a more plain windproof.

 

[mjr]

riding a mountain bike with no lights, suddenly off the pavement

The bit I've emboldened is a far more dangerous action than having no lights. IIRC, entering the road without priority is one of the top mainly-cyclist-caused factors in urban collisions (but still not quite as frequent as most variations on motorists failing to give way).

 

[LinchPin]

So if I may paraphrase: although in the absence of other road users it would be safe to ride an unlit bicycle, the excess of light from other road users makes it unsafe not to add to that excess by getting some lights of your own. The only way to make it safe for yourself is to contribute to making it less safe for everyone?

I'm part of the problem myself (I'm a parent, and therefore a coward), but I'm assuredly not going to start complaining about people who refuse to be part of that arms race. Especially given that cyclists have to carry or generate their own power source wherease motorists have mechanically propelled vehicles to carry theirs around in, it doesn't seem like a race where anyone using a human-powered vehicle is going to come out ahead.

Yes in a ideal situation, urban, well lit all cars driving around with their side lights on I can see that an unlit cycle is going to stand out more but that's not the real life situation cars drive around with their dipped beam on, which means as a driver one has to join the race by putting one's dipped beam lights on.

I have an eight minute walk home from the station and in that time the road lighting changes dramatically due to trees obscuring lights etc. I see people walking appear and disappear as the light changes which would happen with unlit cyclists as well.

I suppose one would like to see some proper research show the utility of lights in the same way they use to show that drink/driving messes with one's ability to drive properly.

Perhaps the lighting issue is the same as drink/driving and wearing seat belts.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I have an eight minute walk home from the station and in that time the road lighting changes dramatically due to trees obscuring lights etc. I see people walking appear and disappear as the light changes which would happen with unlit cyclists as well.

I thought cars have headlights to help drivers combat the variability of street lighting. Usually two of them, but lots around here can't be arsed to go to Halfords for a new bulb so get by with the one.

And of course, if the drivers are driving faster than they can stop within the distance they can see...

...that would somehow be a cyclist's fault.

Obviously.

 

[Dan B]

Perhaps the lighting issue is the same as drink/driving and wearing seat belts.

I don't see how. Better lights make it safer for me at the expense of everyone else, I'm pretty sure the same is not true of drink driving

 

[LinchPin]

I thought cars have headlights to help drivers combat the variability of street lighting. Usually two of them, but lots around here can't be arsed to go to Halfords for a new bulb so get by with the one.

And of course, if the drivers are driving faster than they can stop within the distance they can see...

...that would somehow be a cyclist's fault.

Obviously.

I wondered about the distance of one's typical dipped headlight vs the stopping distance. Whereas I'm thinking of the guy with a light on that can be seen hundreds of metres away up in the distance, forewarned etc.
People do drive faster than they can stop in and they always will until Google cars take to the road.
I wouldn't say it was the cyclists fault but I can't believe having no lights wouldn't be a contributing factor in certain circumstances like a normal run of the mill road with Johnny Average driver.
Having decent lights might just be an expensive rabbit foot talisman but my life experience has shown me that I see things with lights easier than shadows on shadows.

 

[LinchPin]

I don't see how. Better lights make it safer for me at the expense of everyone else, I'm pretty sure the same is not true of drink driving

Surely there's a happy medium between no lights and lights that blind all within 200m.?

Mentioning drink/driving & seat belts was about the discussion on these things not about the detail.
Many people think that drink/driving is about other people and they're fine, stronger constitution etc.
At the time when seat belts came in much was made by people saying that it's safer to not where them as you'll get thrown from the car etc.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I wondered about the distance of one's typical dipped headlight vs the stopping distance. Whereas I'm thinking of the guy with a light on that can be seen hundreds of metres away up in the distance, forewarned etc.
People do drive faster than they can stop in and they always will until Google cars take to the road.
I wouldn't say it was the cyclists fault but I can't believe having no lights wouldn't be a contributing factor in certain circumstances like a normal run of the mill road with Johnny Average driver.
Having decent lights might just be an expensive rabbit foot talisman but my life experience has shown me that I see things with lights easier than shadows on shadows.

Ah the forewarned delusion. First cousin of the illusion of attention.

Can I recommend you a great book...
The Invisible Gorilla.

Our intuition deceives us.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I rarely ride with no lights. But I have done so when events have conspired.

But the only times, please note plural, I have been hit or a victim of SMIDSY at night I was lit up like an Xtmas tree.

 

[Dan B]

Surely there's a happy medium between no lights and lights that blind all within 200m.?

If the purpose of lights is to stand out against the background, and the background consists of other people/cars/objects with lights on, it can only end one way

 

[mjr]

I thought cars have headlights to help drivers combat the variability of street lighting. Usually two of them, but lots around here can't be arsed to go to Halfords for a new bulb so get by with the one.

The police were actually stopping mislit vehicles on my way home tonight, directing them into a layby and giving them tickets (I think whatever the current equivalent of the old stripe-edge tickets requiring you to prove you fixed it within two weeks). Long may it continue!