Lights, how much is a life worth?

[glasgowcyclist]

Why not conclude "therefore we need to turn it all back down a bit so that it is easier for the things that need to stand out to stand out?"

Nobody trusts simple answers anymore.

GC

 

[Tin Pot]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_pollution

 

[theclaud]

I rode home today along the seafront bike path. Met a friend on the way and we rode some of the way together. When we were about two miles from the Mumbles, we saw an extraordinary white light at the bike path level. I thought something like this must have pulled onto the path:

As we got closer it was apparent that it was a single ludicrous lamp. We eventually closed on the light source - a cyclist (as he approached we could see nothing beyond the light). I said 'Keep the light down a bit, mate!' He said 'Get farked'. Which was nice.

 

[LinchPin]

Why not conclude "therefore we need to turn it all back down a bit so that it is easier for the things that need to stand out to stand out?"

Why not conclude that if everyone is blinding everyone with ferocious lighting that one joins them but to a lesser extent, I'm not sure what a unilateral declaration of no-lights-at-night would do unless you can start a groundswell of opinion across the whole country.

 

[LinchPin]

This is all well and good but it is all based on the thinking that cars have lights so that the vulnerable can see them and get out of the way.

I thought it was a case of seeing and being seen, so that the pedestrian can think "I'll cross the road now, oh better not here comes a car" or in the new world order the pedestrian says "I'll cross the road now, yep nothing coming. WTF. *bang*, no worries it was a ninja warrior my fault"

 

[Tin Pot]

I thought it was a case of seeing and being seen, so that the pedestrian can think "I'll cross the road now, oh better not here comes a car" or in the new world order the pedestrian says "I'll cross the road now, yep nothing coming. WTF. *bang*, no worries it was a ninja warrior my fault"

No, it's just about being seen.

If you can't see a moving car on a well lit urban street at night without floodlights you should not;

Be crossing the road
Be out at night
Be on the internet

 

[bikeman66]

I would have thought the majority of posters on here are serious/semi serious cyclists, after all we come on here to gain knowledge and discuss all things cycling.
But I am amazed at the number of cyclists that ride without any lights at all. With it being dark by 5ish any commuter on day shifts will have to cycle in the dark, and also those who start work at 6am etc will also be in the dark.
With lights starting at around £5 for a basic set do these people put any value on their life, and also the feelings of those loved ones around them?

Good post Broughtonblue, and I totally agree. Obviously, having a decent set of lights is basically an exercise in self preservation, but it is also a legal requirement. Personally I cannot understand people who would argue that you may be safer without lights, as it apparently makes motorists look harder for you. Surely it has to be better to be obviously visible than hopefully visible to a minority of extra observant car drivers.

Having said all that, I am slightly concerned about the increase in massively bright front LED's on the road. As a cyclist and a driver (as I guess a majority of us are) it is easy to see both sides of the arguement about visibility. Just lately I have regularly seen a guy cycling towards me at around 5.00pm, as I head home from work. His front light is so ridiculously bright that it is more of a distraction than anything else. Add to that an equally bright flashing LED and OK he was very highly visible, but I would argue that the distracting effect of this light set-up could have potential to actually cause accidents. If this guy could just angle those lights downward a little he would still be highly visible and he wouldn't be nearly blinding oncoming traffic. I don't subscribe to the belief that you need 5 or 600 lumens of power on a commute, unless you're riding predominantly unlit roads when seeing is just as important as being seen. I guess if all motorists drove around with headlights on full beam the whole time the police would have something to say about it.

Obviously, high visibility is essential for safe cycling, but there are sensible and user friendly ways to achieve that.

 

[cd365]

I have one of the massively bright LEDs on my bike for my commute, but that is down unlit country roads so I can see the benefit of them. Recently I did tell a cyclist on the other side of the road to angle his light down since it was right in your face!

 

[Dan B]

No, it's just about being seen.

If you can't see a moving car on a well lit urban street at night without floodlights you should not;

Be crossing the road
Be out at night
Be on the internet

I would suggest that the same considerations apply to seeing a pedestrian, with the additional restriction:

Be trusted with a two tonne vehicle that can produce 50kW of motive power

[edit per benb, thanks]

 

[LinchPin]

No, it's just about being seen.

If you can't see a moving car on a well lit urban street at night without floodlights you should not;

Be crossing the road
Be out at night
Be on the internet

That's not fair I thought you were talking about some typical UK town with dodgy lighting and potholes everywhere where a cars lights illuminate those things and even a cyclists lights.
I've lost sight of what this thread was about, I thought it was about people not having lights on full stop and now it seems to have morphed into 'the world should change'; Yes, ideally it should but even with the best will in the world it'll take years to happen and in the meantime?

 

[LinchPin]

Something less binary?

I actually thought of saying something similar about it not being a binary proposition of either no lights or eye-burning-uber-lights and now I have.

 

[mustang1]

Why not conclude "therefore we need to turn it all back down a bit so that it is easier for the things that need to stand out to stand out?"

I don't believe we need to. Those were different times.

 

[benb]

I would suggest that the same considerations apply to seeing a pedestrian, with the additional restriction:

Be trusted with a two tonne vehicle and 50kW of kinetic energy

Watt is a unit of power, not energy.
It's joules you were thinking of.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Surely anecdote and strong opinion can suffice?

In combination with a Sobranie and a double-espresso they usually carry the day.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I have one of the massively bright LEDs on my bike for my commute, but that is down unlit country roads so I can see the benefit of them. Recently I did tell a cyclist on the other side of the road to angle his light down since it was right in your face!

It wasn't right in my face. Perhaps your face was in the wrong place?