Lightweight cassette lock ring tool

[chris-s]

In my situation, the Bianchi is running the standard factory built 24 spoke wheels, yes it's not a touring bike, and three other owners I know with the same year/model all ended up swapping out their wheels due to repeated spoke breakages on the rear and I know for sure, cos I had to recover him, that in one case the bike was un-rideable on 23 spokes even with the caliper slackened right off.

Hopefully I won't need to use it, but bearing the above in mind I'm not going to risk it for the sake of a sub-16g tool and bunch of spokes.

Chris

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Yes, and more than that and something I would thoroughly recommend, I went out in an empty car park and practised until I got it right. I've since done two emergency stops on the Brommie where I stopped with the rear wheel folded under (that was before I installed the rear triangle catch) so the practice more than paid off as I was clearly able to brake as hard as possible without braking too hard and up-ending the bike.

But there is no difference between an emergency stop with just the front brake or with both brakes, because if you are truly braking as hard as you can, the back brake is doing nothing as there is no weight on the rear tyre. The only situation where that is not true is in very slippery conditions where the limit of adhesion of the front tyre is reached before there is significant weight transfer from the back wheel.

I could not disagree more. Yes the front brake is more powerful but the rear brake slows down the bike. This is why many MTB'ers ure two fingesr on the rear brake and one on the front. Maybe the physics are different on a Brompton?
Also can you explain as hard as possible without braking too hard. That seems like a contradiction.

 

[PpPete]

But there is no difference between an emergency stop with just the front brake or with both brakes, because if you are truly braking as hard as you can, the back brake is doing nothing as there is no weight on the rear tyre. The only situation where that is not true is in very slippery conditions where the limit of adhesion of the front tyre is reached before there is significant weight transfer from the back wheel.

no !
If there is zero weight on the rear tyre then even the slightest amount of braking pressure on the rear will lock the wheel. It's worth practising with your own bike so as to find the limit of adhesion of the rear, before you need to do an emergency stop where you want the maximum braking from both wheels.

I do admire the OP's dedication in creating that tool !

 

[Herzog]

Added weight decreases the loading on the spokes so only makes things better, not worse.

Why do so many tourists, or larger riders, suffer from more broken spokes than lighter riders? If I added weight over my rear wheel, would I be less likely to break a spoke?

 

[chris-s]

I do admire the OP's dedication in creating that tool !

It was quicker to make the tool (hacksaw + Park Tools cassette tool) than read this thread!

Chris

 

[Red Light]

I could not disagree more. Yes the front brake is more powerful but the rear brake slows down the bike. This is why many MTB'ers ure two fingesr on the rear brake and one on the front. Maybe the physics are different on a Brompton?
Also can you explain as hard as possible without braking too hard. That seems like a contradiction.

MTBing has a lot more subtley to it that on-road riding doesn't. For example braking on the front wheel can cause it to stall on a big rock rather than roll over it, there are often loose stones or slippery surfaces under your wheel that means the front wheel slides well before you transfer weight off the rear etc. The rear brake is also useful to gauge how much grip you actually have and to balance the bike in corners.

Meanwhile back on the road, most of that almost never applies. As for the explanation, if you are braking the weight will transfer from the rear wheel to the front wheel because your centre of gravity is above the axle of the front wheel. Brake hard enough and the rear wheel will start to lift. You are now at maximum braking and the rear brake has zero effect now because its off the ground. Brake any harder and the rear wheel will rise higher still and you are then on your way over the bars. The trick is to practice getting to that point where the rear wheel is lifting but without braking so hard that you go over the bars. In the motorbike trade its known as a stoppie. Its much better to practice that than try and learn how to do it while facing an emergency.

The physics of the Brompton is similar to any other bike apart from having a lower axle height and therefore weight transfer happening more easily. All it does though is demonstrate that the rear wheel was well off the ground such that it could fold under while controlling it to not go so far as an over the bars moment. Something I could never have done had I not practised and made it instinctive.

HTH

 

[Angelfishsolo]

MTBing has a lot more subtley to it that on-road riding doesn't. For example braking on the front wheel can cause it to stall on a big rock rather than roll over it, there are often loose stones or slippery surfaces under your wheel that means the front wheel slides well before you transfer weight off the rear etc. The rear brake is also useful to gauge how much grip you actually have and to balance the bike in corners.

Meanwhile back on the road, most of that almost never applies. As for the explanation, if you are braking the weight will transfer from the rear wheel to the front wheel because your centre of gravity is above the axle of the front wheel. Brake hard enough and the rear wheel will start to lift. You are now at maximum braking and the rear brake has zero effect now because its off the ground. Brake any harder and the rear wheel will rise higher still and you are then on your way over the bars. The trick is to practice getting to that point where the rear wheel is lifting but without braking so hard that you go over the bars. In the motorbike trade its known as a stoppie. Its much better to practice that than try and learn how to do it while facing an emergency.

The physics of the Brompton is similar to any other bike apart from having a lower axle height and therefore weight transfer happening more easily. All it does though is demonstrate that the rear wheel was well off the ground such that it could fold under while controlling it to not go so far as an over the bars moment. Something I could never have done had I not practised and made it instinctive.

HTH

If you are at maximum braking how can you brake any harder? Do you mean you have braked enough?

 

[gaz]

Have you done an emergency stop with just a front brake? You see the world from a whole new perspective!

Only if you don't know how to brake properly. In an emergency stop, the quickest way to stop is using only the front brake.
This can be different on gravel and other similar surfaces.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Only if you don't know how to brake properly. In an emergency stop, the quickest way to stop is using only the front brake.
This can be different on gravel and other similar surfaces.

I guess the CTC must teach incorrect braking technique then?

 

[mickle]

Wet braking surfaces, a loose or wet road surface, or even the highly unlikely chance of front brake failure. Each of them enough reason for me not to want to unhook my rear brake in order to ride 100 miles on a buckled wheel.

But the biggest reason of all? Someone might see me riding along with a buckled wheel and my brakes all undone and flapping about. Too embarrassing. Jesus I'd be mortified. I'd rather ride along with my gooley hanging out quite frankly.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Wet braking surfaces, a loose or wet road surface, or even the highly unlikely chance of front brake failure. Each of them enough reason for me not to want to unhook my rear brake in order to ride 100 miles on a buckled wheel.

But the biggest reason of all? Someone might see me riding along with a buckled wheel and my brakes all undone and flapping about. Too embarrassing. Jesus I'd be mortified. I'd rather ride along with my gooley hanging out quite frankly.

I had a limp of shame a few weeks ago when my back wheel gave way. The squeek from the disk brake rotor and not so sutble up and down of the rear wheel was most embarrasing. I was luckly in that I only had a few miles to ride!!!

 

[bobones]

I guess the CTC must teach incorrect braking technique then?

Sheldon Brown would think so.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Sheldon Brown would think so.

Each to their own. I will stick to two handed braking me thinks.

 

[mickle]

Sheldon shmeldon.

 

[Red Light]

If you are at maximum braking how can you brake any harder? Do you mean you have braked enough?

No, it means if you braked any harder the bike would up-end itself and you would go over the bars. Typically around 0.6-0.7G braking for a bike and not much change whether you hang your bum over the rear wheel or stay on the saddle..

Of course there is the Richards Bicycle Book (original) method of throwing the bike sideways and sliding to a stop on buckling wheels but I've never seen anyone actually do that. But if they did it would probably brake faster.