Lightweight cassette lock ring tool

[mickle]

Why do bikes (along with every other veehickle I can think of) have rear brakes?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Why do bikes (along with every other veehickle I can think of) have rear brakes?

Can I get an AMEN

 

[Red Light]

If you are a driving instructor and you told someone to use maximum brakes what do you think the person would do? Maximum means all of. Optimal means the perfect amount of... in this case force to use in order to bring the bike to a stop. I still wil continue to use both brakes as the CTC taught me for both on and off road riding.

I said maximum braking, not maximum brakes. And with driving you have no choice. You only have one pedal but perhaps you would yank on the hand brake as well if given that instruction.

Whether you continue to follow the CTC method or not is your prerogative but you have still not addressed the question of how you can get harder braking than the point at which the rear wheel is lifting off the ground and what role the rear brake has in that situation. Its a matter of simple high school physics and mechanics, nothing more.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

I said maximum braking, not maximum brakes. And with driving you have no choice. You only have one pedal but perhaps you would yank on the hand brake as well if given that instruction.

Whether you continue to follow the CTC method or not is your prerogative but you have still not addressed the question of how you can get harder braking than the point at which the rear wheel is lifting off the ground and what role the rear brake has in that situation. Its a matter of simple high school physics and mechanics, nothing more.

I am not disagreeing with you that once the rear wheel leaves the ground it is useless. What I am saying is there is no reason why you should have to brake that way.

I still say maximum brakes means all the brake power you have. It's like saying I drove a car at max rev but still had some revs left.

 

[Red Light]

Why do bikes (along with every other veehickle I can think of) have rear brakes?

On most vehicles because the vehicle weight makes the rear brakes effective which allows the braking load to be spread between the front and rear wheels. But they are operated by a single lever, motorbikes excepted.

On bicycles, because the law requires two brakes to guard against the failure of a single brake. You might notice that a bike has two brake levers and a combined brake lever like a motor vehicle is illegal because it could lead to both brakes failing together. You will notice motorbikes have two brake levers too for the same reason and you will also notice on a motor bike acceleration is limited by the front wheel lifting and braking by the rear wheel lifting. Neither of which is a problem on most cars and lorries.

 

[Red Light]

I am not disagreeing with you that once the rear wheel leaves the ground it is useless. What I am saying is there is no reason why you should have to brake that way.

I still say maximum brakes means all the brake power you have. It's like saying I drove a car at max rev but still had some revs left.

Stop moving the goal posts. I have consistently said "maximum braking" which you are now trying to change into "maximum brakes" as your escape route.

So stop ducking the question and tell me how you achieve greater braking than what I have described as maximum braking. You are objecting to me calling it maximum braking which means you must envisage a situation where you can achieve more braking than what I am calling maximum. So tell me how you achieve it.

I suspect the reason you won't is you can't as it is the maximum despite all your protests otherwise.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Stop moving the goal posts. I have consistently said "maximum braking" which you are now trying to change into "maximum brakes" as your escape route.

So stop ducking the question and tell me how you achieve greater braking than what I have described as maximum braking. You are objecting to me calling it maximum braking which means you must envisage a situation where you can achieve more braking than what I am calling maximum. So tell me how you achieve it.

I suspect the reason you won't is you can't as it is the maximum despite all your protests otherwise.

Easy - you can achieve greater braking by pulling full on the front brake only and going over the bars - That is max braking / max brakes. It is not optimal for an emergency stop however. The word maximum means all, full out, no more left. If you say max braking by definition it means you can brake no harder. Change it to optimal braking and I'll agree 100%

 

[Red Light]

Easy - you can achieve greater braking by pulling full on the front brake only and going over the bars - That is max braking / max brakes. It is not optimal for an emergency stop however. The word maximum means all, full out, no more left. If you say max braking by definition it means you can brake no harder. Change it to optimal braking and I'll agree 100%

So you are playing silly sematics. You know you can stop even faster by riding into a brick wall?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

So you are playing silly sematics. You know you can stop even faster by riding into a brick wall?

That would not be braking. Call it maximum effective braking and people would understand.

 

[gaz]

Optimum braking by your standards will still not include the rear brake (in a road situation)

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Optimum braking by your standards will still not include the rear brake (in a road situation)

So why do the CTC amongst many others teach emergency stopping using both brakes.

 

[gaz]

So why do the CTC amongst many others teach emergency stopping using both brakes.

Because they dont want people to go head over handle bars and get hurt.

Your front brake will stop you in half the distance of just the rear. The front brake is most affective at the point just before the rear wheel lifts off the ground, at that point using the rear brake will just lock up the rear wheel.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Because they dont want people to go head over handle bars and get hurt.

Your front brake will stop you in half the distance of just the rear. The front brake is most affective at the point just before the rear wheel lifts off the ground, at that point using the rear brake will just lock up the rear wheel.

Yes so the idea is to keep both wheels on the ground by using both brakes. I have had to do many an emergency stop and apart from when I was on my ancient apollo kaos I have never hit anything.

 

[Red Light]

Yes so the idea is to keep both wheels on the ground by using both brakes.

Which means you are not slowing as quickly as you could. The physics doesn't allow it to be otherwise on an upright. I don't know about you but if its an emergency I want to be able to stop as quickly as possible, especially as it can mean the difference between hitting or being hit and not.

So the other idea is to practice braking so you don't go over the bars using just the front brake.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Which means you are not slowing as quickly as you could. The physics doesn't allow it to be otherwise on an upright. I don't know about you but if its an emergency I want to be able to stop as quickly as possible, especially as it can mean the difference between hitting or being hit and not.

So the other idea is to practice braking so you don't go over the bars using just the front brake.

So why don't the CTC et al encourage it's members and instructors (I am one) to do this?