London East-West and North-South Cycle Superhighways

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srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
only viable option on busy major routes
The only busy major route on the proposed network is the Westway Flyover (where, incidentally, I probably wouldn't use a segregated route - I hate heights, and I'd be constantly worried about a motor vehicle coming into the segregated lane and knocking me off the bridge). There are viable alternatives for most of the other routes - and if Westminster would only implement a 20mph speed limit like all its neighbouring councils they'd all be much safer.
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
If you honestly think the pathetic painted bike symbols are remotely equivalent to proper segregated paths, you need to get over to the Netherlands as a matter of urgency so that you can see what nonsense you're talking ...
Of course they're not. But I've noticed (being a regular commuter in the City) that since painted bike symbols in the middle of the road have appeared I've been treated with more respect.

No-one so far has addressed my major problem - the proposals are a very expensive way of creating a very long way round for a journey where two much more direct routes exist, and are extremely well used. Sorting out a dozen individual junctions would be cheaper and achieve more.
 

CopperBrompton

Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
Location
London
But I've noticed (being a regular commuter in the City) that since painted bike symbols in the middle of the road have appeared I've been treated with more respect.
Can't say I've noticed any difference at all. Now as then, the vast majority of drivers are fine and the twats remain twats.

No-one so far has addressed my major problem - the proposals are a very expensive way of creating a very long way round for a journey where two much more direct routes exist
Which you can still use. Segregated paths are designed to make cycling attractive to those who find it too scary at present. They also tend to gain momentum: the more you create, the more people cycle and the greater the political demand for more of them. I welcome them.
 

EthelF

Rain God
Location
London
The only busy major route on the proposed network is the Westway Flyover .

A matter of perspective I guess. I consider the likes of Victoria Embankment to be major busy routes. Semantics I guess.

The Westway bit of the proposal looks hideous and impractical to me.
 

stowie

Legendary Member
Yes, you may be segregated from a tipper lorry on that path, but personally I have never had a problem with them,. I find other cyclists far more of a danger to my safety, especially when I will now have then riding head on at me, not just in the same direction.

However, if you look at the bigger picture, it is encouraging motorists to see cycling as something that has no place on the road. This is the concern.

We need to make roads safer for cyclists . Removing cyclists from the road does not do that

A statement not borne out by the statistics.
 

stowie

Legendary Member
Of course they're not. But I've noticed (being a regular commuter in the City) that since painted bike symbols in the middle of the road have appeared I've been treated with more respect.

No-one so far has addressed my major problem - the proposals are a very expensive way of creating a very long way round for a journey where two much more direct routes exist, and are extremely well used. Sorting out a dozen individual junctions would be cheaper and achieve more.

Is the route proposed not currently much used by cyclists? I thought Upper / Lower Thames street was quite busy and considered a particularly difficult - if not dangerous - road for cyclists?
 

Beebo

Firm and Fruity
Location
Hexleybeef
What has happened to all the other cycle super highways that were proposed years ago but have never come to life?
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
Is the route proposed not currently much used by cyclists? I thought Upper / Lower Thames street was quite busy and considered a particularly difficult - if not dangerous - road for cyclists?
It's not much used by cyclists because there are other more useful routes. There are almost no destinations on Upper and Lower Thames Street, so they have little direct magnetism. They're useless as routes to anywhere because they don't connect with the bridges and require steep hill-climbs to get anywhere people might actually want to be. The fact they're hideously busy, and just about the only roads in the City which haven't been speed-limited to 20mph just adds to their repellent nature.

By contrast, Queen Vic Street, Fleet Street, Cheapside and Holborn have oodles of destinations actually on them, are 20mph zones and aren't used by through traffic. So cyclists use them.
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
Which you can still use. Segregated paths are designed to make cycling attractive to those who find it too scary at present. They also tend to gain momentum: the more you create, the more people cycle and the greater the political demand for more of them. I welcome them.
THey certainly have their place. I'm not convinced that through the middle of a city where cyclists have created their own desire lines, and where plenty of people cycle without segregated paths is a great place for them.

I haven't studied the proposals in detail, but what I have seen is far too much of the compromises that make too many segregated paths unattractive. Bus stop bypasses are just nuts, and the idea that a bike path should switch from one carriageway to another is bizarre.
 

CopperBrompton

Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
Location
London
where plenty of people cycle without segregated paths
You and I do, the inhabitants of cycle forums like this one do, but there are millions of people who wouldn't dream of doing so but who would happily cycle on a segregated path. The Netherlands proves the point.
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
You and I do, the inhabitants of cycle forums like this one do, but there are millions of people who wouldn't dream of doing so but who would happily cycle on a segregated path. The Netherlands proves the point.
Sorry - you're plumb wrong. The sort of people I know who cycle in London wouldn't dream of inhabiting a cycling forum. For them, a bike is a mode of transport. Fortunately the number of such people is increasing all the time. One segregated path on a route that is either not wanted or else is already chock full of cyclists isn't going to change that materially.
 

Glow worm

Legendary Member
Location
Near Newmarket
Sorry - you're plumb wrong. The sort of people I know who cycle in London wouldn't dream of inhabiting a cycling forum. For them, a bike is a mode of transport. Fortunately the number of such people is increasing all the time. One segregated path on a route that is either not wanted or else is already chock full of cyclists isn't going to change that materially.

Perhaps a better understanding of the wishes of those you don't know in London who don't currently cycle, might provide a more comprehensive picture?
 

CopperBrompton

Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
Location
London
Sorry - you're plumb wrong.
You're arguing against something I haven't said. Obviously those on cycling forums are a small subset of those happy to cycle in London. What I actually said was:

there are millions of people who wouldn't dream of doing so but who would happily cycle on a segregated path. The Netherlands proves the point.

Feel free to argue that point, but to do so you'll have to explain the Netherlands, or Denmark.
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
Perhaps a better understanding of the wishes of those you don't know in London who don't currently cycle, might provide a more comprehensive picture?
Yup. They don't want to. Simple as that. London has a great public transport network. Some people want to avoid it while getting a bit of light exercise, some don't. Gradually, over time, more people are realising that cycling is a good way of moving around the capital, but that's coming through generational shift and through example - and through publicity and the (relatively) cheap and dirty existing network and small local interventions to make individual junctions safer, not through one very expensive white elephant.
 
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