London East-West and North-South Cycle Superhighways

[CopperBrompton]

I see that, now that your version of the Dutch story is getting too difficult to defend you're picking on the other fabled success story.

Several of us have been banging our heads on your blindness to the Dutch lesson, so I pointed out that it is not the only example of the hugely beneficial effect of segregated cycle paths on cycling growth.

But they're neither necessary nor sufficient to increase cycling or cyclists' safety.

Necessary? Depends on your goals. Cycling is 2% of the UK's modal share of transport, and you seem proud this is increasing by 10% (0.2%) a year. So sure, in a century or two, we'll be at Dutch levels. Some of us would like to see us get there a little faster than that.

 

[theclaud]

Several of us have been banging our heads on your blindness to the Dutch lesson

Naughty @srw, not learning his Dutch Lesson! We'll have all sorts of people thinking for themselves, next, and where will that leave us?

 

[CopperBrompton]

NWe'll have all sorts of people thinking for themselves, next

Fear not, srw certainly has his own unique interpretation of the facts ...

 

[RhythMick]

And when do we get there? When every visitor to London who hasn't been for a while comments how many cyclists there are? When policy is made by local authorities to increase the number of cyclists? When there are hire bikes available that you can use for the price of a coffee? WHen every station has racks upon racks of bikes in their parking?

I can't answer that clearly. I'm simply saying I'm happy about anything that moves us closer to it.

 

[EthelF]

I took my son (aged 4) for a ride into London today, using our tandem coupling. He loved it ("This is better Daddy" "Better than what?" "Better than staying at home"). I managed to string together a series of quiet routes to take us into town. But then I ran out of options - routes further into town. There simply were no roads/routes left where I was comfortable to ride with my son in tow. Routes that I would comfortably use by myself felt unsafe for the two of us. So we retraced our steps home. Oh, and on the way to the river path we used, on a quiet back street, a driver decided that we were not worth waiting for at a pinch point. Nice.
He deserves better than this. We deserve better than this. Which is why I long to see three things:
1) segregated routes on major thoroughfares - having tried the alternative for the last 19 years I don't see another option
2) filtered permeability on back routes - three cheers for Hackney & Haringery
3) rigorous enforcement of traffic laws - oink flap oink flap...

 

[EthelF]

Why dismiss the most obvious here?

I'm not dismissive of law enforcement, just somewhat jaded, as while there appears to be an increase in political will to deliver the former two, there appears to be none to increase enforcement - successive governments appear to be terrified of the motoring lobby. Traffic police numbers have been cut, the streets sppear to me to be more lawless than ever, and my personal experience of Roadsafe has been wholly unsatisfactory.

 

[spen666]

A statement not borne out by the statistics.

Actually I think you will find it is totally borne out by the statistics.

I am talking about MY cycling experiences.

I have had ZERO accidents involving or caused by lorries of any type.

I have had a small number of accidents caused by actions of other cyclists or pedestrians

 

[EthelF]

Yet of the three, it is the one worth having.

I agree it's worth having, that's why it was in my wish list.
Filtered permeability is NOT worth having? Really?

 

[stowie]

Yet of the three, it is the one worth having.

And the most difficult to implement. Not only is poltiical will for enforcement so poor that laws such as 20mph which have been proven to reduce risk are ignored - and flouted - by the police, but even if the police suddenly decided that they were worth policing they would have a huge task in do this effectively.

And filtered permeability is a good option not just because it is cheap, easy, and effective on the road where it is implemented, but because - if done with care - it can calm and reduce traffic in an entire area.

 

[stowie]

Actually I think you will find it is totally borne out by the statistics.

I am talking about MY cycling experiences.

I have had ZERO accidents involving or caused by lorries of any type.

I have had a small number of accidents caused by actions of other cyclists or pedestrians

You are taking your single, personal experience and assuming that the risk posed to you by these forms of transport is directly related to this experience. This is almost certainly not the case.

 

[Glow worm]

Nothing that has a restricted number of roads designated as suitable for cyclists is worth having.

How does it reduce suitability for cyclists?

 

[EthelF]

Nothing that has a restricted number of roads designated as suitable for cyclists is worth having.

So presumably you are also opposed to signposted cycle routes?

 

[spen666]

You are taking your single, personal experience and assuming that the risk posed to you by these forms of transport is directly related to this experience. This is almost certainly not the case.

No, I am saying what MYexperience is and what my views are. You may have different experiences. I would an dream of trying to tell you what you experiences were or what the statistics relating to your riding are.

 

[srw]

Several of us have been banging our heads on your blindness to the Dutch lesson, so I pointed out that it is not the only example of the hugely beneficial effect of segregated cycle paths on cycling growth.

Listen. I'm getting terribly bored pointed out that "the Dutch lesson" isn't actually what you think it is. So I'm going to shut up.

If you want to get people pissed off by spending large amounts of taxpayers' money on a white elephant - be my guest.

Here's my prediction, if the thing ever gets built as currently planned.
Tower Bridge - Blackfriars: little used
Embankment: used about as much as the current route, with a fair few ignoring it and using the road.
Parliament Square - HPC: very well used indeed, including by a lot of people coming over Westminster Bridge.
Hyde Park - Westway: little used. People will use the A5 instead.
Westway flyover: will have a major accident within a few months of opening.

 

[srw]

I did. It looks like a list of stuff that's been happening in the UK for years.

Ah. Light dawns. In Holland they called this "Stop killing children".

I forgot to include publicly available hire bikes so that people don't even need to own their own, by the way.