London riots

[pawl]

What difference would that have made?

Do you think the Police have time to surf the net?

It would appear that the authorities are aware that these riots are being organised via social network sights ,twitter/facebook etc.

How many police does it take to scan these sites,very few i would imagine.Perhaps leicestershire police are more on the ball as they idetified a potential flash point last night via scaning these sites.

 

[Dan B]

The key word there is "potential". It's not about knowing that a threat has been made, it's about making the decision as to whether it's a credible threat and how many cops do you send there when they could be attending the scenes of other credible threats elsewhere

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Will not be doing my evening ride tonight, it's happening just round the corner to us, why don't they bring in the army and let them kick shoot out of the self-gratification artists, there is no excuse for what they are doing.

I said as much on a Facebook post. These idiots are using fear as a weapon - send in the military and let them see what real real fear is!

 

[Angelfishsolo]

The key word there is "potential". It's not about knowing that a threat has been made, it's about making the decision as to whether it's a credible threat and how many cops do you send there when they could be attending the scenes of other credible threats elsewhere

Social Media sites are a great place to spread disinformation as well. The second any of these idiots get wind that the police are scanning there communications they will use it to their advantage.

 

[Durian]

oooh, sweet! If we're shooting people can we start with those named after stinky fruit? Or do we have to co-ordinate death lists?

Clapham Junction looking pretty ok. People turning up to work as usual, and the Council doing a fine job of sweeping up.

If you catch me rioting then I give you permission to shoot me. No lists needed, all looters to be shot.

 

[dellzeqq]

If you catch me rioting then I give you permission to shoot me. No lists needed, all looters to be shot.

I was more concerned about your user name.

 

[jonny jeez]

The police have a real issue on their hands.

Going in strong now will ignite the situation but could restore calm quickly. However they seem to be playing the long game right now on the basis that it is only commercial buildings that are being targeted in the main. This involves recording faces to prosecute later (when the situation is diffused). But patience from the community is running out.

If the looters begin to turn their attention to private homes then there will be a backlash from the community and the situation could turn to full on riots.

I was out last night with some neighbours "patrolling" my neighbourhood amongst rumours that kids were starting to turn their attention to homes in the area.

I personally will not let a gang of kids attack my family or my home without putting up a bloody good fight, I suspect many people feel the same and are watching, like me to see if the police bring the situation under control before forming a force of their own to take a stand.

its all rather menacing right now and feels like something big is about to happen.

 

[dellzeqq]

JJ - forgive me for pointing this out - but you're in Chislehurst. Hardly a hotbed of deprivation. And, despite my confidence of last night, there was looting in Balham. Carphone Warehouse got hit.

This smacks of school holiday stuff, albeit on a larger and nastier scale than we're used to.

 

[MacB]

feral scum, sub-human, need shooting on sight

well I understand these feelings and the knee jerk outrage and anger felt by us all, but do we think this has arisen entirely seperate to our society?

Do we think that people are born bad? I'm prepared to accept that an odd few could be, but in the numbers required to create this 'sub class'?

If not then we have to accept that this has occurred over decades, and under all political flavours. So in looking for the whys then we'd need to look for what has been consistent over that time.

People with values wildly different to the majority of us haven't just appeared overnight, and I seriously doubt they've been specially bred, so we're left with nurture, or the lack thereof.

Much as it pains me to say so, Cameron has a point with his 'hug a hoodie' and big society ideas, he just doesn't get, or can't accept, that it would only work in a more egalitarian setup.

 

[Durian]

I was more concerned about your user name.

I am rather partial to the Durian and have just finished eating some not long ago. Once you get past the smell it's a delicious fruit. You ever tried it?!

 

[Vidor06]

Londoners, welcome to our world. We have had 'recreational rioters' in Belfast for years and time and time again people claim they are rioting or causing trouble because they are poor or have a lack of opportunity but usually it is just young lads with nothing better to do. Luckily, and I use that word with caution, they dont tend to loot or wreck other areas but stay to their own neighbourhood and fight amongst themselves. There is a culture amongst young men in NI of entitlement which I would guess is replicated across inner city London. Young men and women see that they are entitled to money, entitled to designer gear, entitled to the best phone, entitled to luxury. The problem is that a large number of them do not want to work to achieve these things and see the only way to get them is to rob and steal. Unfortunately I am neither clever enough nor 'street' enough to know how to fix this but someone is bound to have a fix. However, I am sure it wont be quick.

The police policy here and it would appear in London is one of containment rather than anything else. Bringing in the army is not the answer, it has never been the answer in any previous instances and should not be the answer now. Water cannon, tear gas and plastic bullets, now they will get a certain message through, but what happens when a rioter/looter gets killed and the trouble escalates?

Others have stated that we should throw the book at them, but where are we going to put them? Our prisons are already overflowing.

 

[dellzeqq]

I am rather partial to the Durian and have just finished eating some not long ago. Once you get past the smell it's a delicious fruit. You ever tried it?!

I just want to make using the word a capital offence. Persuade me otherwise.

 

[dellzeqq]

Londoners, welcome to our world. We have had 'recreational rioters' in Belfast for years and time and time again people claim they are rioting or causing trouble because they are poor or have a lack of opportunity but usually it is just young lads with nothing better to do. Luckily, and I use that word with caution, they dont tend to loot or wreck other areas but stay to their own neighbourhood and fight amongst themselves. There is a culture amongst young men in NI of entitlement which I would guess is replicated across inner city London. Young men and women see that they are entitled to money, entitled to designer gear, entitled to the best phone, entitled to luxury. The problem is that a large number of them do not want to work to achieve these things and see the only way to get them is to rob and steal. Unfortunately I am neither clever enough nor 'street' enough to know how to fix this but someone is bound to have a fix. However, I am sure it wont be quick.

The police policy here and it would appear in London is one of containment rather than anything else. Bringing in the army is not the answer, it has never been the answer in any previous instances and should not be the answer now. Water cannon, tear gas and plastic bullets, now they will get a certain message through, but what happens when a rioter/looter gets killed and the trouble escalates?

Others have stated that we should throw the book at them, but where are we going to put them? Our prisons are already overflowing.

sounds pretty sensible to me.

If I may add to that - the people most scandalised by these events are the contemporaries, or near contemporaries of the looters. Therein, possibly, lies both hope and opportunity.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

[QUOTE 1499036"]
What's happened here then? Because as far as I can tell you can have a load of people with no respect what so ever for other peoples property looting and setting fire to things. I very much doubt that the wider economic issue entered their mindset when carrying out the above.
[/quote]

And I didn't say that it did. There is a big difference between saying that 1. the riots are motivated by economics or politics and that 2. there is an economic and political context to the riots.

Dell and Smeggers have already expressed some of what I would say is going on. You've got a profoundly unequal country pervaded by consumer culture, so everyone is brought up to think that they should be able to have anything they want, but in practice some so and some don't. Then there are all kinds of minor hatreds and divisions that only get expressed when certain triggers produce the 'right' circumstances for frustrations, fear and anger produced by the feeling of being seen as human waste. (As an aside, if you don't think people do feel like this, you only have to look at the language in this thread - scum etc. and calls for people to be killed - this language isn't just produced by these riots, it's how many people think about their fellow human beings much of the time. And that's part of the problem too).

The particular actions don't make a lot of sense and we shouldn't expect that they do. Many of the specific outcomes are just mindless criminality - and there will be plenty of people who will and should be prosecuted. But, if you think that's all there is to this, and if you think that therefore the only way to deal with this is to treat the entire situation as one of 'crime', then you are being woefully naive, and what's more, you will never understand how societies work or be able to do anything about the situation that gave rise to this.

To continue the film theme that seems to have taken over the Cafe recently, it's worth watching two films to get a sense of this: Spike Lee's Do the Right Thing, which gets this 'it makes no sense' riot spot on, and La Haine (Hate), a rather brilliant French film.

And to understand the context, I recommend the remarkably clear-sighted and sane book, The Spirit Level.

 

[theclaud]

I just want to make using the word a capital offence. Persuade me otherwise.

Someone sent me an enquiry about a senior position in the company today, and the signature in her email was in three-colour twelve-point Harlow Italic. These are clearly the people that should be shot. As well as the ones named after unapproachable fruits.