London shall change the face of cycling in the UK

[StuartG]

Maybe the biggest benefit for older freedom pass holders in this would be when it goes out as far as zone 4?

I don't think so. The bike thing fits in well in a multi-modal situation. It is easy to get into central London from pretty well anywhere in the suburbs (that's why the suburbs are there!). The difficulty is getting to the right part of central London. Some bits can be quite a walk from the nearest tube - like Condor's shop in Grays Inn Road for instance. Jumping on a bike for the last 500m would be nice. And it also provides the closest we will ever get to secure bike parking.

The system is designed to deter rail commuters since they are too concentrated for the scheme to handle - but multi-modal interaction with tubes and buses coming in from zones 2/6 is much more diffuse and should work. Unless you think these bikes are just for Zone 1 residents (not a lot) or tourists.

Its just that in the rush to get the scheme going - integration with other transport has been skipped. And as almost anyone knows integrated transport is the only way to go.

I hope they sought this soon.

 

[chap]

That makes sense, but whether that was not the case or not should probably be considered. I think there would be a reluctance to even consider people in these groups cycling. I don't know why that is as it is felt that even in London that some groups still consider them toys or giving them subsidised leisure activities. In terms of cycling these groups have never been considered here in terms of some of the local cycling issues.

Maybe the biggest benefit for older freedom pass holders in this would be when it goes out as far as zone 4?

I can understand both you and StuartG's points. Many, probably the majority of our drivers, do view cyclists as pests (at best), and cycling as a childs pastime or something to do with the kids on a summers day. Few view it as a serious mode of transportation. The idea that the road is sole domain of the car can easily manifest itself as pretty poor driving too, one doesn't have to read more than 3 random thread titles from Commuting to attest that.

This does not bode well with the uninspired cautious 'enabler', thus would most likely fail to get past mountains upon mountains of red-tape and other examples of bureaucracy aimed at self-preservation through avoiding litigation. After all, the tabloids would scream 'Blue Murder' if one of the Freedom Pass participants were involved in an accident with one of those infamous flying 'tippers', yet the vitriol would not be aimed at those that allow them into the cities narrow and cramped winding streets, uncontrolled, during peak hours.

However, the success of such a strategy will count on people perceiving cycling to be a safe activity. What better demonstration of such sentiment than when women, and especially the young and the elderly feel safe enough to participate freely.
http://www.streetfilms.org/velib/

 

[chap]

Here is a link to an excellent video about the Parisian scheme (Vélib), of particular note are the sections around 3:09, 4:30, 6:30, and 7:25-58.

http://www.streetfilms.org/velib/

 

[Riverman]

Has there been any research done on how many people use helmets that use the Paris velib system?

If there have been very few accidents, it's a pretty damning assessment of the need for cycle helmets.

Beware possible cycle helmet debate.

I didn't see a single person in that film wearing a helmet.

 

[StuartG]

Didn't see any Bicing users wearing helmets in Barcelona this year. Nor on this video:

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCNboaWtqIc


They were being well used. Involving helmets would probably impair the successful launch of both schemes and the environmentally and health outcomes. Its a balance of risks. People who feel the need can still carry and use ... and can try and convince users to join them. But the more important issue is first to get people biking.

So maybe we should avoid the helmet issue pro tem?

 

[chap]

Has there been any research done on how many people use helmets that use the Paris velib system?

If there have been very few accidents, it's a pretty damning assessment of the need for cycle helmets.

Beware possible cycle helmet debate.

I didn't see a single person in that film wearing a helmet.

There were a few people wearing helmets, chiefly those with the helmet cams, I think the advertising bloke was putting one on as well.

Fortunately, it is not mandatory to wear a helmet in order to use the scheme (it is aimed at grown ups though.) In central London, rightly or wrongly, I generally feel a bit safer than on many country roads or new cities, although I normally wear one regardless. Nonetheless, it is a personal choice so it is right that it is up to the user.

In Paris, I didn't notice many people wearing helmets, but then they really have gone over and beyond in order to accomodate the scheme. I mentioned before that before the scheme I used to speculate that the reason one never saw any fat Parisians was because one was dicing with death when crossing a road, after the scheme was launched I noticed a huge shift in the way drivers responded. Plus there is so much space for cyclists, it really is a place where one feels they belong to the city, easy to walk around, then cycle, then drive (in that order) unlike many towns and cities here, unfortunately. It is on this point that I am most hopeful.

 

[Riverman]

There were a few people wearing helmets, chiefly those with the helmet cams, I think the advertising bloke was putting one on as well.

Fortunately, it is not mandatory to wear a helmet in order to use the scheme (it is aimed at grown ups though.) In central London, rightly or wrongly, I generally feel a bit safer than on many country roads or new cities, although I normally wear one regardless. Nonetheless, it is a personal choice so it is right that it is up to the user.

In Paris, I didn't notice many people wearing helmets, but then they really have gone over and beyond in order to accomodate the scheme. I mentioned before that before the scheme I used to speculate that the reason one never saw any fat Parisians was because one was dicing with death when crossing a road, after the scheme was launched I noticed a huge shift in the way drivers responded. Plus there is so much space for cyclists, it really is a place where one feels they belong to the city, easy to walk around, then cycle, then drive (in that order) unlike many towns and cities here, unfortunately. It is on this point that I am most hopeful.

I'm just saying that with millions of journeys having been made on the paris bikes, it's in the 10s of thousands a day isn't it? And not a single report of someone falling off a bike and cracking their head open. Don't get me wrong, I'm very pro helmet wearing, however, the fact so few people are wearing helmets and so few people are injuring themselves would suggest that the helmet is a little redundant.

I'm sure people are falling off their bikes, just where are all the head injuries?

+ if it were a major problem there would be signs everywhere telling people to wear a helmet. Do these signs exist?

This just seems to underline that the average cyclist is in more danger of being run over by a lorry than falling off the bike whilst commuting in a city and sustaining a nasty head injury.

 

[CopperBrompton]

Oh god, can we please not start yet another f*ck*ng h*lm*t debate?!

 

[marinyork]

I don't think so. The bike thing fits in well in a multi-modal situation. It is easy to get into central London from pretty well anywhere in the suburbs (that's why the suburbs are there!). The difficulty is getting to the right part of central London. Some bits can be quite a walk from the nearest tube - like Condor's shop in Grays Inn Road for instance. Jumping on a bike for the last 500m would be nice. And it also provides the closest we will ever get to secure bike parking.

Trivially. We've already done that on these threads. My interest here is whether these freedom passes can get more interesting transport link ups outside of zone 1.

 

[dellzeqq]

if you look at the TfL blurb the intention seems simple enough - it will relieve congestion on the tube and the buses within zone 1, and be a cheaper alternative to taxis.

Now, as Stuart says, this is a decent target - although I still think that hauling almost 24kg of bike up from the Embankment to The Strand will prove too much for some casual riders.

Ken's intention, one that struck me as over-ambitious, was to cover all 32 boroughs, and this coverage would be allied to the restraint of car traffic in suburban centres. Johnson got elected by the suburbs on the perception that the suburbs had been neglected, but, paradoxically, he's cancelled suburban transport schemes, and given up any pretence of controlling car traffic - so traffic in the 'doughnut' of zones 3 to 6 will be far, far worse than traffic in Westminster.

As for Freedom Passes, Marin, they cover the entire GL area. It does seem odd that the Velib isn't going to be compatible with Freedom Passes and Oyster cards.

 

[StuartG]

I still think that hauling almost 24kg of bike up from the Embankment to The Strand will prove too much for some casual riders.

My wife as a young nurse used to ride her single speed basketed Hercules up Blackheath Hill everyday. It felt a good 50lb to me!

A surprising number of people are naturally quite strong. What they do not have, unless they exercise regularly, is stamina. That may not be too much of a problem in a restricted 30 min Zone 1 situation.

 

[chap]

Well the glorious day has finally arrived, I for one will be very interested to hear about members experiences of it over the oncoming weeks - especially with regard to whether this is the catalyst that unifies the 'vehicularists', the 'segregationists', and normal cyclists as one by finally hitting critical mass.

Barclay Cycle Hire Page


BBC
Intro
User Reviews
Teething Problems

Telegraph

Guardian
On Montreal
On Branding
List of Docking locations

Daily Mail
Pictures, and basic analysis

News has been generally positive, a few issues about helmets and other saftey concerns, then there were the opportunist grips, particularly poor was the effort from MoneyWise where the writer clearly misunderstood the scheme, it's geographical limits (Zone 1), and it's point, shoddy jounralism indeed.

The Daily Mail strangely enough appear to have covered it well, there is even an interesting seemingly unrelated rant from LittleJohn which adds a nice bit of irony to the occasion.

The Guardian covered it from multiple angles, one pertinent point was made about the over-commercialisation of it from the Blue streets to the fact that we appear to be the only major city who has named their public cycle scheme directly after the company sponsor - unlike Barcelonas BICing, Paris' Vélib. In 10 years is it going to be the Barclay Cycle Scheme, or the 'Santander Spin' (Red superhighways, poor time keeping, and siestas ), personally I hope they call it LoCHS.

That aside, I believe that today is a important day for the city, UK cycle advocacy, and the nation. Let's hope it makes a positive difference.
​

 

[jonesy]

Some extremely stupid comments in response to an article in the Independent...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/first-london-now-the-rest-of-britain-2040028.html

There is a depressing amount of negativity towards this, partly the sort of typical anti-cycling nonsense you'd expect from the usual places, partly people who want it to fail simply because they hate Boris...

 

[chap]

Some extremely stupid comments in response to an article in the Independent...

http://www.independe...in-2040028.html

There is a depressing amount of negativity towards this, partly the sort of typical anti-cycling nonsense you'd expect from the usual places, partly people who want it to fail simply because they hate Boris...

Just goes to show that mental acuity seldom correlates with physical maturity.

It appears that the Independants' moderators have removed that fool 'Tom in Londons' comment about how he hoped (thought it would be worth it if) a few cyclists would die on the hire bikes if it led to the scheme being scrapped.

Unfortunately, they blocked my reply which provided news links to the deaths of 4 cyclists all within a short space of time who had died due to poor street planning (barriers) and HGV's. Also made a point about how the Evening Standard thought it worthy to mention that the medic who had been struck, was not wearing a helmet.

A wasted post perhaps but I hope he read it, and I hope it made whoever saw it, hopefully more people than just myself, at least think about matters from the cyclists perspective.

 

[sheddy]

I fear that the medya at large are hoping that the hire scheme will fail.
Possibly because yer average journo just wants to carry on taking a cab each time and not have to consider any other option.