London shall change the face of cycling in the UK

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

CopperBrompton

Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
Location
London
Yes, I was specifically referring to the access charges. The rental charges are a bit high for longer use, but I suspect Chap has hit the nail on the head there: it's not fair to small businesses to have taxpayers' money competing with them.
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
Ben Lovejoy said:
Seems good value to me. Those wanting to use it more casually will get a day's access, those wanting to use it once a week or more will get annual access.

It represents good value overall, but people don't necessarily think like that. £45 fee and just string together a set of short journeys is still good value. It just looks awful from a price point point of view. A lot of poorer people will look at that and think I can buy a so called BSO for twice that much, why should I bother? It doesn't matter that you don't need to worry about parking/storage and stuff because newbies don't necessarily think like that. Price is paramount in getting people on the things, once they are hooked some of this goes away but you have to get over that first hurdle.

At least they have let people do day or week but £45 is basically a scheme for the wealthy.

I hope that some of the GPs/health authorities prescribing exercise jump on the bandwagon and give free/reduced years access + key etc.
 

CopperBrompton

Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
Location
London
marinyork said:
At least they have let people do day or week but £45 is basically a scheme for the wealthy.
I think it's more a tariff for people who expect to use it weekly or more.
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
Ben Lovejoy said:
I think it's more a tariff for people who expect to use it weekly or more.

I'm sure it is set for that but I think it's probably too high or that you need some fourth option.

I'm not sure a week is set right but at least it is there. People often sign up for things and then don't get round to necessarily doing it or doing it a second time for quite a while afterwards. A week is probably pretty good for a tourist though I guess. Another option if things go badly would perhaps as a promotion give out a week or month for free, I think that'd probably level things up a bit and it's the sort of thing you want at the start of a scheme.

I just think I'd personally have difficulties persuading people to give it a go when they find out what the pricing for the access charge is and I think that's a shame and some of these people are on pretty high incomes. It's a chance for people that live outside zone 1 when they occasionally go in it to have a go on a bike, perhaps in a park and see what a bike is like.
 

Norm

Guest
400 hire stations but no clue where they are. I'm sure that will change but I can see there would be some demand for commuters. I used to get the train to Paddington then underground to TCR. It was a couple of miles straight along Oxford Street, so it would be free (other than the periodic fees) if the bikes were available regularly at either end.

marinyork said:
I'm not sure a week is set right but at least it is there. People often sign up for things and then don't get round to necessarily doing it or doing it a second time for quite a while afterwards. A week is probably pretty good for a tourist though I guess.
I think the point there is that it's £1 for a day or £5 for a week. For commuters, that means there are no financial benefits to buying a weekly ticket.

For occasional users, there's little benefit in getting anything other than a daily ticket.
 
OP
OP
chap

chap

Veteran
Location
London, GB
One wouldn't be wrong in thinking that it is a business commuter / touristy thing predominantly. From the feasibility study page 44:

2.1 Differences between central London and Paris

164.
London Analytics was commissioned to look at the elements of the Parisian success from the demand analysis point of view. Paris was selected as it is the biggest scheme currently in operation. Also the city of Paris shares some characteristic with London as a ‘world city’ (similar population, number of visitors, public transport provision, etc).
The findings were then compared to the study area in London

165.
The main differences between the study in London and the existing scheme in Paris are as follows:


  • Smaller deployment area – 40 km2 in London compared with 87 km2 in Paris
  • Lower population within the deployment area – 400,000 in London compared with 6,500,000 in Paris
  • Lower population density – 12,000 people per km2 in central London compared to 24,000 in Paris
  • Fewer trips are made by the inhabitants of the metropolitan area – 815,000 (Zone 1 to Zone 1) in London compared to 6.5 million in Paris.
  • Fewer trips above 1km – 256,000 trips in London compared to 3.25 million in Paris (average weekday)
  • Higher cycling mode share in Central London (increase of 86 per cent since 2000 in London compared to 46 per cent in Paris in the same period up to the introduction of Vélib’)
  • Much greater employment density in London than Paris. Paris has 1.6 million jobs with a density of 18,390 jobs per km2 – London has 1.53 millions jobs with density 45,000 jobs per km2. By 2025 London is expected to have 1.89 million jobs with a density of 55,588 jobs per km2
166.
The observed uptake in Paris is around three per cent (including trips by tourists and visitors). Of all existing trips, three per cent are made by cycle hire. The majority of these trips are made by residents within the deployment zone (the Boulevard Périphérique)

167.
Based only on trips made by residents London has fewer potential trips than Paris, resulting in a possible lower predicted usage of cycle hire. However, in addition to resident trips, many thousands of trips in London will be made by tourists, business visitors and rail commuters

2.2 Tourists and visitors

168.
London has a significant number of visitors and tourists – 26 million a year in greater London (compared to 15 million in Paris). They also stay longer with an average length of stay of 4.6 nights (compared to 2.1 nights in Paris).

169.
Based on tourist and visitor data from the London boroughs, it has been assumed that 75 per cent of trips are made in central London. For example, even if a tourist or a visitor stays in Outer London they are likely to travel into central London for some of their stay. Many tourists will stay (and make trips) within central London for the entirety of their stay

170.
Assuming a conservative rate of three trips per day and a trip length distribution profile similar to that of trips made by residents (around 30 per cent of trips are longer than 1km) this gives an estimated 230,000 daily trips of more than 1km by tourists and visitors to London

171.
The calculation is as follows: 26 million visitors and tourists a year equates to around 71,233 arriving daily. Each staying 4.6 days and undertaking three trips per day equates to around 983,000 daily trips. Of these, 75 per cent are undertaken in central London and around 31 per cent are of more than 1 km. This equates to 230,000 daily trips of more than 1 km by visitors and tourists to London

2.3 The after rail market and additional business trips


172.
Around 522,000 trips terminate in central London at National Rail stations, most of which take place in the morning peak. The busiest eight stations produce approximately 300,000 trips, for which the journey between the station and the final destination, within Zone 1, is in the range 1km–8km (LATS 2001)

173.
LATS data indicates that the average Zone 1 commuter makes 0.56 trips per day in Zone 1 (in addition to their journeys to and from Zone 1). Commuters coming from outside the greater London (not included in LATS) area are bound to make additional trip throughout the day, in addition to their journey to and from work

174.
If we assume same travel patterns, 58 per cent of the 522,000 trips terminating at a central London National Rail station would make 0.56 additional trips throughout the day. This equates to 168,000 additional journeys during the working day. This figure is used in table 2.5.1 to estimate total demand
 

Norm

Guest
I think that means that they are expecting most trips to be by commuters or tourists because (compared to Paris) no-one lives in Central London, but I got a nose bleed from trying to interpret all of those numbers. :biggrin:
 
OP
OP
chap

chap

Veteran
Location
London, GB
Norm said:
I think that means that they are expecting most trips to be by commuters or tourists because (compared to Paris) no-one lives in Central London, but I got a nose bleed from trying to interpret all of those numbers. :tongue:

Most definitely, and ditto on the figures :tongue:

I think that given the test bed of commuters and tourists, it should be fool proof for when it is (hopefully) expanded outwards. Lessons can (actually) be learnt for other cycle improvement measures, since they will want to make this work. An obvious part in making Central London more cycle-able (other than dealing with HGVs) is proper signage.

After all, and I've posted this before, Central London is very small but lacking in good cycle signs (and secure parking.) Were quieter, and direct (assisted routes to be well signed across say every 50 - 100m and at the start and end of each turn) then it could be the prime steps towards a cycle nirvana.

These routes ought to be signed:


  • London Kings Cross/St Pancreas
  • London Waterloo
  • London Paddington
  • Victoria
  • Euston
  • Charing Cross

In addition to:

  • Buckingham Palace
  • Natural History / Science Museum / V&A
  • Houses of Parliament / Big Ben
  • Trafalgar Square
  • The Royal Parks

Dellzeqq pointed out some real issues concerning the linking of Paddington to Euston, however if commuters are to be targeted then this is an issue to be tackled properly: perhaps the case for an actual Superkalafragelistic-cycle-super-highway as opposed to a discontinuous narrow blue strip.
 

Norm

Guest
I'll say one thing. Reading all this has made me want to head up to town tomorrow.

Unfortunately, the Smalls' school broke up yesterday and the wife is working for another few days yet, so I won't be able to sneak out until later in the week. That said, though, the forecast isn't exactly looking sightseeing / tourist friendly for a few days, so the wife working might be just the excuse I need. :tongue:

I used to cycle round London plenty when I was a brat, as I went to school in Barnes and went out with a chic chick from the Lycée, so we used to frequently ride round town. I don't think I've done London on a non-motor-bike in about 25 years, though I do keep getting the urge from reading the threads on this place.
 
OP
OP
chap

chap

Veteran
Location
London, GB
Norm said:
I'll say one thing. Reading all this has made me want to head up to town tomorrow.

Unfortunately, the Smalls' school broke up yesterday and the wife is working for another few days yet, so I won't be able to sneak out until later in the week. That said, though, the forecast isn't exactly looking sightseeing / tourist friendly for a few days, so the wife working might be just the excuse I need. :biggrin:

I used to cycle round London plenty when I was a brat, as I went to school in Barnes and went out with a chic chick from the Lycée, so we used to frequently ride round town. I don't think I've done London on a non-motor-bike in about 25 years, though I do keep getting the urge from reading the threads on this place.

If you're after a nice ride then save it for Sunday, preferably early morning, failing that then before lunch on a Saturday (bonus being that you can hit the markets)
 

Norm

Guest
Hmmm... I'll bear that in mind, chap, but I do rather like (on my motorised steed) the thrunge of riding in traffic and want to see how pedal powered compares. You're right that trying an early morning might get up to speed, so to speak.
 
OP
OP
chap

chap

Veteran
Location
London, GB
Norm said:
Hmmm... I'll bear that in mind, chap, but I do rather like (on my motorised steed) the thrunge of riding in traffic and want to see how pedal powered compares. You're right that trying an early morning might get up to speed, so to speak.


In that case, my friend, may I recommend ... the rush hour home trip. Into Kings Cross at 6, head towards Trafalgar Square, HoP, then Victoria :smile:




Seriously, be careful
 

Norm

Guest
Add in a few bridges, the Embankment and a couple of laps of Westminster / Whitehall / Horse Guards and you've got my idea of a fun evening on a motorbike. I do understand that the motor will make a significant difference, though. :smile:
 
OP
OP
chap

chap

Veteran
Location
London, GB
LoCHS starts Friday 30th July 2010

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/parisstyle-boris-bikes-arrive-in-july-1931639.html

London's promised "revolution in cycling", based on the Paris velib bike-hire network, will begin on 30 July, Boris Johnson will announce today.

Londoners and visitors to the city will be able to pick up and drop off one of 6,000 hire-bicycles at 400 locations across the centre of the capital.
The scheme, originally proposed by Ken Livingstone, Mr Johnson's predecessor as London Mayor, hopes to avoid the problems that have plagued the popular Parisian velib network, where half the bikes have been lost or stolen.

Users will pay an initial membership fee of £1 for 24-hour access, £5 for seven-day access, or £45 a year. They can make unlimited journeys and the first half-an-hour will be free. On top of that, the London Cycle Hire charge for members will be £1 for a journey of between 30 minutes and one hour, £4 for up to 90 minutes, and £6 for up to two hours. Cyclists will use a new smart-card – similar to an Oyster card – to unlock the bikes.

Mr Johnson, said: "In just four months London will glitter with the twinkling dynamo lights of thousands of shiny hire bikes, zipping around the streets unfettered from timetables, queues and crowds."
 
Top Bottom