Cathryn
Squire
- Location
- Marlborough, Wiltshire
It struck me that I think she’s quite shy. She clearly relaxed over the day. And her dog is top notch!
Matt Stephens cafe rides.
- Thread starter esoxlucius
- Start date
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It struck me that I think she’s quite shy. She clearly relaxed over the day. And her dog is top notch!
Excellent news! In all of the PFP interviews I have seen, she comes across as highly intelligent, with well thought out and articulated answers.
She's very analytical I'd say.
I think she would be great on a cafe ride - here's hoping.
Kuss is the same team, so hopefully that might pave the way.
P.S I don't like/approve of the grief she has been given for losing 4kg to assist in winning the TDF - it's never been raised as a negative to the best of my knowledge when male riders have done similar in the past, and what threw me even more is that her colleagues are seemingly on the same wavelength as the detractors, which I find mind boggling.
Tabloid press etc have always been sh1t stirrers, but I wouldn't have expected that from professionals in the sport.
Apologies, off on a tangent.
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Flo is a star 😍 Demi has said in the past shes just always been naturally shy, but is learning to be more assertive and confident,so I definitely think we see the real Demi in that piece with Matt
Cathryn
Squire
- Location
- Marlborough, Wiltshire
Fully agree. Woman does something amazing. Media bangs on about her body and asks questions of other women about their bodies as well.
Has anyone seen Paret-Peintre lately??
OP
OP
esoxlucius
Well-Known Member
Just watched the Sepp Kuss episode. Such a nice guy. I'm really glad he ended up winning that Vuelta. The team dynamic that year was a strange one for sure.
wakemalcolm
Legendary Member
- Location
- Ratho
Not from sideways on.
Cathryn
Squire
- Location
- Marlborough, Wiltshire
I was hoping for a punchline of that kind 🤣
I liked the bit about the Donkeys.
matticus
Guru
There has definitely been some unpleasant commentary around PFP - but then that is partly driven by genuine justified concern for athletes (male and female) who diet to unhealthy levels. (Quote from the post-tour Cycling Podcast - Dani Rowe said she never had a period during her pro career).
I think there is a difference between men/women racing, AND a difference over time. Bodyweight has been almost a taboo subject in modern coverage of the womens races (up until this july!) - whereas for the men it is discussed much less than in the past, but is always there. Think of Jan Ulrich - his fluctuating weight over every season is still discussed openly, and certainly was during his career (although it's less likely to be made a joke now)
I recall when Wiggins won in 2012, it was mentioned how much weight he had lost (Google reportss in the region of 6kg - so I would suggest that PFP's 4kg, taking their comparative body weights into the equation, is a very similar percentage of their original weight) and I recall it being hailed more as a great effort, and I don't recall anyone saying it was dangerous or might encourage any budding cyclists to do the same.
Latterly he said I think he was down to something like 4% bodyfat, and it was on the verge of being dangerous, but he did what he had to do to take home the 2012 title, and latterly went back to a more natural weight, which I am sure PFP will do as well - I think she has already stated that.
He was a skilled sportsperson, PFP very much still is, and they both made strategic decisions about what they wanted/needed to do to help them win the TDF.
Personally that seems pretty much common sense, hill climbers will target super low weight for the end of the year events etc.
With PFP it feels like they are trying to taint her win, not by saying she is cheating, but by saying she is doing something that maybe morally she shouldn't have done, which I personally think is wrong and casts a completely unfair shadow over her stellar victory.
And I say that as a PFP fan, but equally, and closer to home, a massive Kim Le Court fan as well.
I really hope it has not detracted from the win for her.
I'm still disappointed that her colleagues in the peloton have seemingly waded in with very similar comments, rather than supporting her.
I believe she may be a slightly divisive figure (?) in the peloton, so maybe that has something to do with it.
I have to say I do agree with @Cathryn - woman achieves something truly remarkable, what can we find to cast a negative light on it.
Latterly he said I think he was down to something like 4% bodyfat, and it was on the verge of being dangerous, but he did what he had to do to take home the 2012 title, and latterly went back to a more natural weight, which I am sure PFP will do as well - I think she has already stated that.
He was a skilled sportsperson, PFP very much still is, and they both made strategic decisions about what they wanted/needed to do to help them win the TDF.
Personally that seems pretty much common sense, hill climbers will target super low weight for the end of the year events etc.
With PFP it feels like they are trying to taint her win, not by saying she is cheating, but by saying she is doing something that maybe morally she shouldn't have done, which I personally think is wrong and casts a completely unfair shadow over her stellar victory.
And I say that as a PFP fan, but equally, and closer to home, a massive Kim Le Court fan as well.
I really hope it has not detracted from the win for her.
I'm still disappointed that her colleagues in the peloton have seemingly waded in with very similar comments, rather than supporting her.
I believe she may be a slightly divisive figure (?) in the peloton, so maybe that has something to do with it.
I have to say I do agree with @Cathryn - woman achieves something truly remarkable, what can we find to cast a negative light on it.
There has been a lot of research in to unhealthy weight loss in rock climbing ( RED-S?) As there have quite a number of athletes admitting they have developed an eating disorder in their quest for a better power to weight ratio.
The danger might not be to PFP as she will have expert nutritionists to advise but to younger cyclists who see excessive dieting as the way to success.
The danger might not be to PFP as she will have expert nutritionists to advise but to younger cyclists who see excessive dieting as the way to success.
Perhaps they (the press) would be better placed to focus on the win, and the sporting achievement rather than the weight loss element then.
They have now made it front page news so EVERYONE is totally aware.
The weight loss will only be a small percentage of the difference that helped her achieve the win, it's more her training, level of fitness and mental fortitude as I see it, though I appreciate other people may focus on the weight loss element as a quick win, now a spotlight has been vigorously shone on it.
I still don't recall any negative press (to this degree) about male riders losing weight.
Happy to be set straight.
They have now made it front page news so EVERYONE is totally aware.
The weight loss will only be a small percentage of the difference that helped her achieve the win, it's more her training, level of fitness and mental fortitude as I see it, though I appreciate other people may focus on the weight loss element as a quick win, now a spotlight has been vigorously shone on it.
I still don't recall any negative press (to this degree) about male riders losing weight.
Happy to be set straight.
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Cathryn
Squire
- Location
- Marlborough, Wiltshire
I think there’s a balance here. I feel like her weight loss was well managed and supervised from all we can see and the reality of cycling is that it is a power to weight led sport. I also agree that weight is a big issue for women’s sports and am heartened that periods are now a proper topic of conversation. Emma Norsgaard in her podcast has talked of having a goal of 3 or 4 periods per year and yes the Dani Rowe admission shocked me! So I do think the women’s peloton need to address the weight issue.
However…I feel it unfair that PFP’s triumph became all about weight loss. Demi’s press conference afterwards was all about her own weight and if she now wanted to lose weight instead of her own excellent performance. The only pro I heard openly critical of PFP was Marlen Reusser who was worried about the can of worms a PFP victory would open. I think the furore was media led rather than rider led.
Ideally now, the conversation is open and can be had sensibly and realistically. And I agree with Dan Lotus in hoping that PFP didn’t let it taint an absolute masteclass of cycling! Because this rubbish cyclist is absolutely inspired by her! (Not inspired enough to stop eating cake though)
However…I feel it unfair that PFP’s triumph became all about weight loss. Demi’s press conference afterwards was all about her own weight and if she now wanted to lose weight instead of her own excellent performance. The only pro I heard openly critical of PFP was Marlen Reusser who was worried about the can of worms a PFP victory would open. I think the furore was media led rather than rider led.
Ideally now, the conversation is open and can be had sensibly and realistically. And I agree with Dan Lotus in hoping that PFP didn’t let it taint an absolute masteclass of cycling! Because this rubbish cyclist is absolutely inspired by her! (Not inspired enough to stop eating cake though)
women are judged more on their appearance than men, and weight is a big part of that unfortunately, its impossible to hide curves and ignore body shape in lycra.
But I saw people criticising Remco for not keeping his TdF weight at the worlds as a reason he lost out to Tadej in the road race, and Vingegaard spent most of the TdF this year being labelled Skeletor.
So people do notice it in the mens side, they might not react or criticise it the exact same way to it as we saw with PFP.
But theres been a long history in the womens side of the racing peloton of watts per kilo as like the gold standard of success, which led to alot of unhealthy obsession with weight with riders & DS's, some who would punish riders by withholding food, ie starving them, that resulted in riders getting eating disorders and even those who thought they were in control of their calorie intake and doing it healthily ending up with long term health implications because of RED-S and malnutrition, that results in lower bone density which leads to higher risk of bone fractures and osteoporosis later on in their lives.
Emma Pooley, one of Britains top women cyclists in the late noughties released a book of recipes and part biography recently where she admitted she had an eating disorder during her career, she thought she had to be thin to be fast and thought she was too fat. So limited her calorie intake, and was underfuelled for training rides, and the health consequences (bone density etc) of those choices still live with her decades later.
and one of the points she makes is
"As long as very thin athletes are doing well, they’re generally applauded for their self-discipline even though they might be exhibiting symptoms of RED-S or disordered eating. "
ultimately elite cyclists do influence the grass roots, the amateur level, and to assume skinny is faster, is not a healthy (literally) outcome that anyone really wants, we're all different body shapes, and whats more important is accepting who we are not trying to be one size fits all, being healthier for it and boosting the power side of the equation to get quicker.
I think thats where alot of the criticism came from, both from outside and within the womens peloton.
But I saw people criticising Remco for not keeping his TdF weight at the worlds as a reason he lost out to Tadej in the road race, and Vingegaard spent most of the TdF this year being labelled Skeletor.
So people do notice it in the mens side, they might not react or criticise it the exact same way to it as we saw with PFP.
But theres been a long history in the womens side of the racing peloton of watts per kilo as like the gold standard of success, which led to alot of unhealthy obsession with weight with riders & DS's, some who would punish riders by withholding food, ie starving them, that resulted in riders getting eating disorders and even those who thought they were in control of their calorie intake and doing it healthily ending up with long term health implications because of RED-S and malnutrition, that results in lower bone density which leads to higher risk of bone fractures and osteoporosis later on in their lives.
Emma Pooley, one of Britains top women cyclists in the late noughties released a book of recipes and part biography recently where she admitted she had an eating disorder during her career, she thought she had to be thin to be fast and thought she was too fat. So limited her calorie intake, and was underfuelled for training rides, and the health consequences (bone density etc) of those choices still live with her decades later.
and one of the points she makes is
"As long as very thin athletes are doing well, they’re generally applauded for their self-discipline even though they might be exhibiting symptoms of RED-S or disordered eating. "
ultimately elite cyclists do influence the grass roots, the amateur level, and to assume skinny is faster, is not a healthy (literally) outcome that anyone really wants, we're all different body shapes, and whats more important is accepting who we are not trying to be one size fits all, being healthier for it and boosting the power side of the equation to get quicker.
I think thats where alot of the criticism came from, both from outside and within the womens peloton.
Cathryn
Squire
- Location
- Marlborough, Wiltshire
Watched the Sepp Kuss ride today. What a lovely young man (I sound like his grandma). But a genuinely nice guy! And his terrace view…😳 I didn’t realise how pretty Andorra is!
