Mechanical doping

[Pale Rider]

He's probably doing quite a good speed before he comes off, look at the handle bars they are at 90deg that back wheel and crank system has a lot of momentum and the light carbon fibre bike is resting on the rear wheel the front wheel and a small point on the handlebars there's nothing stopping the rear wheel from going around and dragging the bike around with it.

ala this video

View: https://youtu.be/aN7HjwZI-k0?t=31

Er, isn't the video meant to show that an ordinary pushbike can spin threequarters of a turn if it falls over at speed?

 

[jarlrmai]

I'm not sure what you mean, that video shows that the momentum of the rear wheel is easily enough to drag the bike around in a circle.

 

[Pale Rider]

I'm not sure what you mean, that video shows that the momentum of the rear wheel is easily enough to drag the bike around in a circle.

Ah, think I misunderstood you.

Maybe best if I leave the second can of Stella in the fridge for tomorrow.

 

[jarlrmai]

I'm about to hit the whisky so better close down the forums.

 

[raleighnut]

I'm about to hit the whisky so better close down the forums.

Maybe you could announce that on NOMI.

 

[EasyPeez]

He's probably doing quite a good speed before he comes off, look at the handle bars they are at 90deg that back wheel and crank system has a lot of momentum and the light carbon fibre bike is resting on the rear wheel the front wheel and a small point on the handlebars there's nothing stopping the rear wheel from going around and dragging the bike around with it.

ala this video

View: https://youtu.be/aN7HjwZI-k0?t=31

I think my disbelief was possibly in part based on my complete inexperience of carbon fibre bikes....I'm pretty sure I couldn't get the back wheel to spin my steely like that!
I did think it hard to understand why he'd be using a motor while freewheeling on a quick descent.

 

[jarlrmai]

http://fittish.deadspin.com/secret-thermal-camera-footage-allegedly-shows-seven-pro-1771492666

So independent thermal imaging yada yada.

Waste of time, doesn't prove anything, seems another chance to insinuate Froome is a cheat, by iterpersing some footage of him.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

http://fittish.deadspin.com/secret-thermal-camera-footage-allegedly-shows-seven-pro-1771492666

So independent thermal imaging yada yada.

Waste of time, doesn't prove anything, seems another chance to insinuate Froome is a cheat, by iterpersing some footage of him.

@Marmion dug out a link off cyclinghub.tv to the French language Stade 2 broadcast. Worth watching if you understand French.

http://cyclinghub.tv/post.php?id=1515
http://cyclinghub.tv/post.php?id=1516

 

[Foghat]

So independent thermal imaging yada yada.

Waste of time, doesn't prove anything

What a ridiculous head-in-the-sand response. Such investigative journalism needs to be commended.

One thing it proves beyond reasonable doubt is that several pro riders in those races had heat sources in their bikes that i) cannot be satisfactorily explained and ii) strongly indicate nefarious activity. Not remotely a waste of time - quite the opposite in fact.

It also adds considerable weight to the view that Cancellara was up to this in the 2010 Flanders and Roubaix events, the footage from which ties in extremely well with the evidence of how the cheating is done in the Stade 2 documentary. I note that Cancellara seems not to have managed to replicate the absurdly powerful-but-incredibly-smooth accelerations in those two events, suggesting that he was indeed rumbled at the time and has since refrained (or perhaps refined the implementation so that the accelerations weren't so comically implausible and the fingerwork was less obvious).

If you're so convinced the heat sources filmed are legitimately present and that all the other circumstantial evidence should be ignored, or that the journalists are fabricating or misinterpreting evidence, how about offering potential explanations for the presence of the heat sources and for the rest of the deeply suspicious evidence, rather than dismissing it as a 'waste of time'? Brian Cookson was obviously gravely concerned by what he saw - it was written all over his face, and his nervous swallowing as he watched, no doubt frantically considering the repercussions this could have.

Or do you really think that the journalists' sour grapes over non-French victories, or over Froome, is the more likely explanation for all this evidence of motors in bikes?

I admit, though, that the inclusion of video of Froome is possibly unjustified given the lack of evidence against him - the only 'evidence' apparently being that he pedals very quickly when attacking uphill (conveniently forgetting he always looks laboured and ungainly when doing it, and never particularly implausible the way Cancellara was in those 2010 attacks, especially in Paris-Roubaix).

 

[jarlrmai]

Is there any translation of what the engineer is saying?

Some of the hot spots they seem to be pointing out don't look much hotter than other areas of the bike that might be getting warm from friction, certainly nowhere near the heat in the demo they did (the one just before they added some random stock footage of Froome attacking on some climbs)

 

[ColinJ]

Some of the hot spots they seem to be pointing out don't look much hotter than other areas of the bike that might be getting warm from friction, certainly nowhere near the heat in the demo they did (the one just before they added some random stock footage of Froome attacking on some climbs)

There might some friction causing heat in the rear hub or the bottom bracket (though let's face it - friction in bearings in a pro bike should be tiny) but where would the heat come from going up the seat tube from the BB? That definitely looks very suspicious!

 

[oldroadman]

What a ridiculous head-in-the-sand response. Such investigative journalism needs to be commended.

One thing it proves beyond reasonable doubt is that several pro riders in those races had heat sources in their bikes that i) cannot be satisfactorily explained and ii) strongly indicate nefarious activity. Not remotely a waste of time - quite the opposite in fact.

It also adds considerable weight to the view that Cancellara was up to this in the 2010 Flanders and Roubaix events, the footage from which ties in extremely well with the evidence of how the cheating is done in the Stade 2 documentary. I note that Cancellara seems not to have managed to replicate the absurdly powerful-but-incredibly-smooth accelerations in those two events, suggesting that he was indeed rumbled at the time and has since refrained (or perhaps refined the implementation so that the accelerations weren't so comically implausible and the fingerwork was less obvious).

If you're so convinced the heat sources filmed are legitimately present and that all the other circumstantial evidence should be ignored, or that the journalists are fabricating or misinterpreting evidence, how about offering potential explanations for the presence of the heat sources and for the rest of the deeply suspicious evidence, rather than dismissing it as a 'waste of time'? Brian Cookson was obviously gravely concerned by what he saw - it was written all over his face, and his nervous swallowing as he watched, no doubt frantically considering the repercussions this could have.

Or do you really think that the journalists' sour grapes over non-French victories, or over Froome, is the more likely explanation for all this evidence of motors in bikes?

I admit, though, that the inclusion of video of Froome is possibly unjustified given the lack of evidence against him - the only 'evidence' apparently being that he pedals very quickly when attacking uphill (conveniently forgetting he always looks laboured and ungainly when doing it, and never particularly implausible the way Cancellara was in those 2010 attacks, especially in Paris-Roubaix).

Good gracious, journalists make up stories to grab headlines? Whatever next! Now, where's my Daily Mail/Express/Sun/whatever, I'd best check everything I read is 100% true and can be backed up with credible corroborated evidence....

 

[jarlrmai]

If you look at the colour range on the cameras they are set to show from 8.9 degrees to 25.7, the heat coming off the hub at 8:22 in the YT version of the doc looks of be about 1/4 up from 8.9 so not really that hot over a range of 16 degrees C.

Which part in the video (not the FLIR demo) show's the heat going up the seat tube?

 

[Hont]

There might some friction causing heat in the rear hub or the bottom bracket (though let's face it - friction in bearings in a pro bike should be tiny) but where would the heat come from going up the seat tube from the BB? That definitely looks very suspicious!

That was the part that got me wondering. I can't find an innocent explanation for heat in that area - unless you're riding on a freshly welded metal bike or you've spilt some tea from your bidon

But looking at it again, that image only appears to be from when they were demonstrating the motors. The footage from the races is nothing like as damning. In fact, you could argue that none of the race footage shows the same heat profile, so nobody is using that motor.

 

[Hont]

I also notice they're now saying these motors can do 250 watts. That's almost a sprint for me!