Met Police....

[SteelUn]

After a morning of this the top brass got wind and had to have a quiet word with the PCC, and point out that as police officer and staff time was being wasted recording these calls and running round after them they were technically committing the offence of wasting police time. It would seem there is no exemption in the legislation that allows Deputy Commissioners to waste police tine for quality testing purposes.

There is indeed quality testing, but its done by people employed with a specific remit to do so.

Ok so quality testing is ok and so is using staff (whether temporary, hired in or otherwise is moot in my view) time. Does the reaction of the "top brass" to suggest that the PCC's testing is somehow against legislation not therefore strikes you as hiding behind legislation (which if exist was surely never established with the intention to stop a Commissioner quality testing his own force), so as to avoid being independently tested and be accountable to the community they serve, and which, incidentally, is a main reason why PCCs are now to be elected from outside the force?

 

[avalon]

It may have done from Australia. It certainly didn't from London.

That was the way it was reported, the police were portrayed as onlookers who did not want to get involved.

do they never have civil unrest down under?

or it this Aussie humour?

Civil unrest in Australia is rare and nearly always race related and I don't think the Australian police would do the job any better.
Can't be Aussie humour as I'm not Australian, I just live here.
I just prefer the discussion and debate on UK forums, Australians can be a bit uptight about discussing anything controversial on cycling forums, it can get a bit boring at times.

 

[srw]

That was the way it was reported, the police were portrayed as onlookers who did not want to get involved.

And you don't think the media might, perhaps, have simplified?

 

[avalon]

And you don't think the media might, perhaps, have simplified?

To be honest, I wouldn't expect anything else from the media.

 

[mossj88]

To put down the "Wasting Police Time" angle.... if you watch the video carefully it's mentioned they spoke with a inspector previously (and I would guess agreed what they were doing) as the officers spend 30 minutes in their car verifying who they spoke to.

I do agree though why should the police waste time recovering peoples property that they have deliberately put in a situation where it will be stolen. Their are genuine victims out there who the officers can't respond to, because they are dealing with this.

I don't believe what the officers did was an isolated case, the police genuinely appear not to give bike theft the time of day, I was told "we don't have the time/manpower" by a cycle task force officer when I found my own stolen bike for sale on Gumtree (and I get regular emails to the same tune from other bike theft victims).

 

[SteelUn]

To put down the "Wasting Police Time" angle.... if you watch the video carefully it's mentioned they spoke with a inspector previously (and I would guess agreed what they were doing) as the officers spend 30 minutes in their car verifying who they spoke to.

I do agree though why should the police waste time recovering peoples property that they have deliberately put in a situation where it will be stolen. Their are genuine victims out there who the officers can't respond to, because they are dealing with this.

I don't believe what the officers did was an isolated case, the police genuinely appear not to give bike theft the time of day, I was told "we don't have the time/manpower" by a cycle task force officer when I found my own stolen bike for sale on Gumtree (and I get regular emails to the same tune from other bike theft victims).

Why "waste time"? I can see two possible good reasons at least. One is to demonstrate and to publicise what happens with the system when a bike is stolen, "found" but yet to be recovered - I certainly found the video interesting and thought provoking (some further thoughts below), and it did not throw an exactly favourable light on the legal system. Second is even the police deliberately set bikes up to be stolen themselves - see various youtube videos, to identify and catch bike thieves, which presumably is part of their job...

What made me wonder, is given the difficulties with stolen bike recovery even if identified and located (either via tracker, gumtree ad, Brick Lane search etc.) what is the best way to retrieve it? I have the frame number of all my bikes, perhaps it is essential firstly to pre-register them, and once found for sale go see and take possession asap (with proof of ownership/frame number etc. in pocket) but refuse to pay - if the seller argues call the police immediately? Ok it could become confrontational, but any other thoughts?

While good police response to bike theft incidences exist, they seem the exception rather than the rule?

 

[mossj88]

Why "waste time"? I can see two possible good reasons at least. One is to demonstrate and to publicise what happens with the system when a bike is stolen, "found" but yet to be recovered - I certainly found the video interesting and thought provoking (some further thoughts below), and it did not throw an exactly favourable light on the legal system. Second is even the police deliberately set bikes up to be stolen themselves - see various youtube videos, to identify and catch bike thieves, which presumably is part of their job...

Because they are deliberately putting themselves in a situation where there property will get stolen, they are then taking officers away from dealing with genuine victims to go chasing after their property. The police are stretched I don't think anyone can deny that, and doing this sort of thing to point out the problems (that are undeniably there) just exacerbates them. I'm not agreeing with the officers in that video, that was shameful on their part.

Second is even the police deliberately set bikes up to be stolen themselves - see various youtube videos, to identify and catch bike thieves, which presumably is part of their job...

Yes and when they do that they plan officers time to deal with it, they also ensure all the evidence is there to secure a conviction. I doubt even if the officers had been the ones recovering that bike, that an prosecution would of been bought (he was "handling it for a friend" and the police would struggle to prove that he wasn't beyond reasonable doubt). That is one of the problems with prosecuting for "Handling Stolen Goods", you have to prove the person knew it was stolen.

What made me wonder, is given the difficulties with stolen bike recovery even if identified and located (either via tracker, gumtree ad, Brick Lane search etc.) what is the best way to retrieve it? I have the frame number of all my bikes, perhaps it is essential firstly to pre-register them, and once found for sale go see and take possession asap (with proof of ownership/frame number etc. in pocket) but refuse to pay - if the seller argues call the police immediately? Ok it could become confrontational, but any other thoughts?

Some people have reported success doing this but I'm of the belief that if someones prepared to steal a bike they won't draw the line there so doing that may be foolish at best. I know that someone tried this in Brick Lane, when they weren't getting anywhere they tried to do a runner with the bike and ended up getting attacked.

I'd personally approach the police first, then if they won't do anything...

• See if I can arrange to see the bike
  If they will let me... take a few friends to leave outside and have a look at the bike... if it is my bike I'd pretend nothing was wrong explaining that I need to go and get the money. Once out of sight I'd phone the police and tell them I'm outside his house and I'll be kicking down the door in 15 minutes. Which will hopefully get you a response.
  
• I'd set out to win/buy the bike
  Then see if the police is interested... if not I'd try to pay using a trackable means, only pick it up at an address, note down details of the seller and/or record any conversations. I might event go to pick up the bike but after confirming it's mine explain I've accidentally left some money behind and need to go get the cash but will be back in half hour, then once again phone the police out of sight saying the doors going in. Again I'd take friends to wait outside just encase.
  
• If it's a Brick Lane Jobby
  I'd hang around until someone bought it, then approach them once they've left the market whilst on the phone to the police (keep them in a busy public area). If no one is buying it, I'd buy it myself check the details and then phone the police and point them to the bloke that sold it (from what I've seen of Brick Lane it's the same people every weekend).

I don't think pre-registration is necessary as long as it's recorded somewhere.