Minimum Alcohol Pricing

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MrJamie

Oaf on a Bike
It's not a big enough increase to change people's habits, it'll pretty much only affect people buying the bulk buy lager deals and the white ciders which I don't think are that cheap anymore anyway.There's as much of a problem with excess alcohol consumption in well paid high earners as there is with those swigging a can outside the Jobcentre.

If they keep putting the minimum price up ill be able to justify buying the Belgian beers I like rather than cheapo lager though. :cheers:
 
D

Deleted member 26715

Guest
[QUOTE 2176809, member: 9609"]a great deal of what the Police and NHS do revolves around irresponsible drinkers - so like it or not we are all paying dearly for these clowns[/quote]
Correct I'm already paying for the people to put the clowns back together, now I'm also having to pay for a pleasure of not getting like them & drinking sensibly, will I get a rebate on my Tax if the system works & less people get treated in hospital? Like fudge I will!!

Alan...
 
I dont do alcohol so it wont affect me at all, but I think it's a good idea, perhaps not drastic enough actually. I suspect the gov had to sit on a fence here because they know that the huge majority of voters out there are closet alkies tbh....personally O would have slapped a massive tax hike on booze same as cigarettes or higher, and directed evry penny of extra revenue at the NHS...and yes I would also make those who present at hospital with clearly self inflicted illness caused by alcohol or smoking pay for treatment..especially those idiots who get plastered on a saturday night and end up in a&e as a result of an alcohol related injury. Why should good self respecting closet alkies tax payers pay for those idiots amoungst society who arnt even able to be responsible for themselves let alone others.

.

Given that alcohol and tobacco generated £92 billion in revenue 2010-11 practically paying for the NHS in total, surely as a none drinker or smoker, it is you that should pay for treatment??:whistle:
 

Arch

Married to Night Train
Location
Salford, UK
I'm not opposed to the idea - to me, alcohol is a luxury, and if you can't afford it, you should be able to do without it, like I do without a lot of things I can't afford.

However, I also don't think it'll work. We've seen over the last couple of decades how good the population is at just going without things they can't afford, haven't we? People will just spend money they haven't got.

(I see how much a lot of households drink, via their recycling, and it still amazes me sometimes. There's a house where there are regularly 8-10 bottles of Sainsburys Basics vodka. At about £10 a bottle, that's up to £100. A week!)
 

Sandra6

Veteran
Location
Cumbria
I think what will actually happen is that the cheap brands will disappear and there won't be such a wide choice of products.
Nobody's going to pay the same price for a can of tesco's own lager as a bottle of bud.
What I didn't understand was when they were saying the price increase will save x number of lives and reduce alcohol related hospital admissions by y amount. How can they possibly know that??
Just because the prices go up doesn't mean people will buy less, they'll just spend a greater percentage of their income on alcohol and have less for other things.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
Apart from a Guinness with be Christmas dinner I don't drink, so I'm not fussed.

A cunning way of earning more income through taxation without anyone noticing though.
 

Arch

Married to Night Train
Location
Salford, UK
I think what will actually happen is that the cheap brands will disappear and there won't be such a wide choice of products.
Nobody's going to pay the same price for a can of tesco's own lager as a bottle of bud.
What I didn't understand was when they were saying the price increase will save x number of lives and reduce alcohol related hospital admissions by y amount. How can they possibly know that??
Just because the prices go up doesn't mean people will buy less, they'll just spend a greater percentage of their income on alcohol and have less for other things.

Apparently, they've 'modelled' the result. Trouble is, models and humans aren't the same.

Also, on BBC Breakfast this morning, I think I heard an expert say that it worked in Canada when they brought in a minimum price. Trouble is, that model was dealing with Canadians, who are oddities to begin with!
 
A few alternative views-
1. The world usually works on the basis of self restraint. Some people are bad at this and drink whatever they can get hold of. This will not stop them continuing.
2. Should the government be able to decide some measure that will only affect the poor be put in place? It is only the poor that will either be sensative to price or run out of money.
3. The measure will penalise moderate drinkers as well. Why should those who are in control and enjoy an occasional moderate drink be hit because some other fool cannot control themselves?
 

Peteaud

Veteran
Location
South Somerset
I go through a few bottles of Jack Daniels and a couple of Gin in a year, and even then gen only buy if on sale.

During Summer i may have a few Ciders.

But thats about it.
 

pubrunner

Legendary Member
. . . . . I would go much further than minimum pricing and look into things like advertising, regulations on where it can be placed in shops and even try and rein back the number of shops that are allowed to sell alcohol and how much.

In my opinion, Marin's remarks are pretty much spot on.

Alcohol is more widely available than it was years ago and there is also much more choice than previously . . . and it's a lot cheaper now, in relative terms.

I remember that in the '70s, alcohol was sold almost entirely in pubs or off-licences. Off-licences had restricted opening hours - as did pubs actually. I can well remember closing at 10.30 pm in the week and 11pm on Fridays & Saturdays. It was only in the late 80s, that pubs were allowed to open on weekday afternoons and it wasn't until the mid 90s, that afternoon drinking was permitted on Sundays.

Back in the 70s, supermarkets sold very little in the way of alcohol and drinks such as Bacardi Breezers & WKD simply didn't exist. If you wanted a drink at home, you were pretty much limited to that cheap 'plonk' that you brought back from your holiday, or perhaps some homebrew.

If you did decide to go out for a drink, there was little choice, other than to go to your local - where most people would drink beer. In the late 70s, I can well remember a particular group of guys buying a round; 4 of the 5 had a beer, the 5th meekly asked if he could have a whisky - he was 'ribbed' mercilessly, 'cos a measure of whisky (any spirit) cost more than a pint . . . . . whereas in 90s and onwards, spirits have become much cheaper than beer. In mid 70s, bitter was 25 - 30p a pint, whisky was about 33 -35p a measure; it doesn't sound much, but back then, people certainly noticed the difference !

IMO, things changed in the mid/late 80s (& onwards), when supermarkets started to offer much more choice and much more cheap alcohol. Hard to believe, but a publican actually has to pay virtually the same wholesale prices for his bottled beers, spirits and soft drinks, as you would pay at a supermarket. For example, for a publican, the price of a small bottle of Coca Cola/Pepsi is a 'rip-off', so we stopped selling it. Like many others, we resorted to buying the huge bottles of Coca Cola from the supermarket and we'd then pour it into our own Coca Cola dispensing tanks - 'cos to buy the replacement tanks from Coca Cola was far more expensive. Fortunately, being a freehouse, we could buy from whom we wished and Coca Cola never 'twigged' to our scheme.

Another problem that arose around this time, was the rise in number of clubs & 'bottle bars'; people got wise to the fact, that you could get a 'late' license if you had a designated dance floor. The smallest places realised that if they made the bar smaller they'd have the room to put in a tiny dance floor and they could then serve till the early hours.

Drinks such as bottled Budweiser/Becks etc., became very popular. New drinks were invented, which had the optimum ratio of alcohol to volume. If you (anyone) want to get drunk quickly & cheaply, drinking beer is not the best way - too much volume and not enough alcohol.

Nowadays, it is easy (& cheap) to buy half pint bottles of booze ('alcopops' etc) which is (approx.) 5 -10% abv - many swig vast quantities of this kind of product. Add to this, the rise in popularity of drinks in the range of 15-18% abv - about the optimum strength to go straight into the bloodstream and make you intoxicated very quickly. As I've already mentioned, such drinks just didn't exist previously.

So in a nutshell, alcohol is too widely available and too cheap.

Which is a very good thing. It's sad that so many pubs are closing because they can't compete with supermarkets, and bad that people get plastered at home when a good landlord might be a steadying influence.

I have to agree with Spire's comment :thumbsup: , 'cos I'm obviously biased towards publicans :whistle: . To put it another way though, too many places such as supermarkets & clubs, sell alcohol without any consideration towards the customer; for them, it is merely a transaction. A (good) publican should be aware of a customer getting close to their limit. Some may find it hard to believe, but drunks are an absolute nuisance in a pub; most in my experience, have gotten 'tanked-up' at home, before venturing out.

I've lost count of the number of customers that I've taken home, 'cos I've not wanted them to risk either their health or their licence - paid off though, 'cos they appreciate it and become good regulars.

IMO, the number of off-sales should be restricted and the sale of alcohol should solely provided by the responsible landlord in his pub.
 

Rohloff_Brompton_Rider

Formerly just_fixed
But as a nation we are drinking less than we have since the war.

Those who are unfortunate enough to end up with an alcohol addiction, do pay a terrible physical and mental price. Early onset dementia or vascular dementia is a horrible thing to see in a 45 year old. Watching someone have gran mal seizures coming off the booze too quick is also upsetting, do you feel that they deserve these terrible afflictions for some poor lifestyle choices? Personally I don't, but putting up the price of booze above the price of a bag of drugs is not the right choice either.
 

pubrunner

Legendary Member
But as a nation we are drinking less than we have since the war.

Less of what ? We probably are drinking less beer; but it is important to compare like with like.
There is a far wider range of drink (readily) available nowadays . . . containing more alcohol.

Those who are unfortunate enough to end up with an alcohol addiction, do pay a terrible physical and mental price.

Indeed they do !

As I mentioned in my previous posting, supermarkets have no interest in the well-being of their customers; the selling of alcohol is an impersonal and quick transaction and they are not concerned if someone buys a shopping trolley full of cheap, strong lager, since they aren't there, at the point of consumption. A good landlord should be concerned about the health and well-being of customers.
 

slowmotion

Quite dreadful
Location
lost somewhere
A good landlord should be concerned about the health and well-being of customers.
PR, you seem to regard landlords as some kind of benevolent GPs while supermarkets are malevolent drug dealers. Tell me, do you perchance have any kind of financial interest in promoting that view?
 
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