Mod or Rocker?

[jazzkat]

The thing that makes me laugh is that lots of people think that they are rockers because they like Led Zep and Deep Purple. Yet these bands were born out of the Mod movement. Ok the clothes fashion had changed but the music is directly linked to the Mod bands of the 60's and black RnB music. Hell half of Led Zep I and II are blatent covers of blues tracks by people like Howling Wolf in fact Led Zeppelin were formed out of the Yardbirds who often had Eric slowhand Clapton on rhythm guitar.

To me a rocker is someone into Gene Vincent and the like.

The Gene Vincent style of Rock n roll was just white kids playing black rhythm and blues so it was socially acceptable for american kids to buy the records, so in essence you're right the Yardbirds and Gene Vincent are essentially the same thing . The English bands were just doing it their way. Its all an image thing Mods=shirt and tie (conformity) while the rocker=leather and jeans (non conformity). I wonder if it also splits along financial lines - the rocker with his low paid job and ten year old brit bike while the relatively better paid mod has new clothes and the latest italian scooter. I suspect there's a sociology thesis in there somewhere.

 

[Archie_tect]

The Gene Vincent style of Rock n roll was just white kids playing black rhythm and blues so it was socially acceptable for american kids to buy the records, so in essence you're not wrong. The English bands were just doing it their way. Its all an image thing Mods=shirt and tie (conformity) while the rocker=leather and jeans (non conformity). I wonder if it also splits along financial lines - the rocker with his low paid job and ten year old brit bike while the relatively better paid mod has new clothes and the latest italian scooter. I suspect there's a sociology thesis in there somewhere.

You had to be there to understand the hissy, subversive, downright sneering nastiness of the mass ranks of mods. They were evil and lethal when they got into groups of more than 10 or so.
I'll never forget the sight of 50 or so mods mobilising on their ring-ding scooters in a lay-by off the A64 York by-pass as i rode past on my own on my motorbike. I wasn't a greasy Rocker, just a normal bloke on a motorbike, but the jeering animosity that the mods started as they jumped on their scooters to gleefully give chase was really chilling. My bike had the speed to outrun them, as even a 200cc scooter could only just get to 75 or so with the wind behind it, but had I been on a smaller, slower bike, or had I stopped at the traffic lights to get caught, I'm not sure what would have happened.

Don't talk to me about style and cool sophistication. Mods were prats.
... so to answer your suspicion, no, it wasn't as simple as that.

 

[jazzkat]

You had to be there to understand the hissy, subversive, downright sneering nastiness of the mass ranks of mods. They were evil and lethal when they got into groups of more than 10 or so.
... but to answer your suspicion, no, it wasn't as simple as that.

That's gangs of teenagers for you
I was replying more to the comment about the music tbh, Its much like most of todays youth, they align themselves with a particular style and by the time most are in their mid 20's they've grown out of it

 

[byegad]

Rocker. We used to pass Scooters indicating to the riders that while they were flat out we were merely in second gear.

 

[Archie_tect]

Mods weren't teenagers... they spent a lot of hard-earned money to look like that, and scooters weren't cheap to buy and run.... most of them were in the 20s, a lot were older and acted as the gang-leaders. This wasn't about schoolkids being pampered by rich parents.

 

[GM]

Question time:-
Who is that at the back the one with the beard?
I know the rest. Keith Relf, Eric Clapton, Jim McCarty, Chris Dreja, Paul Samwell-Smith, ?

 

[Primal Scream]

316563, member: 8064"]Rocker.
Mods have always been a bunch of preening poseurs, spending far too much time at clothes shops and the hairdressers.
You say it like its a bad thing far better than grooming your hair with half a pound of Tesco value lard and wearing jeans that can stand up on their own due to the dirt and grease

 

[Hacienda71]

You had to be there to understand the hissy, subversive, downright sneering nastiness of the mass ranks of mods. They were evil and lethal when they got into groups of more than 10 or so.
I'll never forget the sight of 50 or so mods mobilising on their ring-ding scooters in a lay-by off the A64 York by-pass as i rode past on my own on my motorbike. I wasn't a greasy Rocker, just a normal bloke on a motorbike, but the jeering animosity that the mods started as they jumped on their scooters to gleefully give chase was really chilling. My bike had the speed to outrun them, as even a 200cc scooter could only just get to 75 or so with the wind behind it, but had I been on a smaller, slower bike, or had I stopped at the traffic lights to get caught, I'm not sure what would have happened.

Don't talk to me about style and cool sophistication. Mods were prats.
... so to answer your suspicion, no, it wasn't as simple as that.

I think you may be stereotyping all mods a little bit too much due to your own bitter recollections.
The early modernists were far too worried about their appearance and listening to Jazz to get into a fight with someone because they rode a motorbike or listened Gene Vincent, they might pity them.
It was only when it became mainstream and was reported sensationally in the tabloid press that there were increasing numbers of fights between mods and rockers. Quadrophenia telling the story so well.
As a 16 year old having saved up enough money to buy a beat up Vespa, spending my weekends hunting out rare imported jazz and RnB records, getting my trousers and suits tailor made at the back street tailors and going to all nighters at the Twisted Wheel in Manchester I hardly fit the stereotype you are portraying. I certainly never went looking for fights with any other youth subculture and neither did my friends.
If by wearing smart clothes, riding what is considered as a worldwide design classic, listening to fantastic music and dancing the night away I am a prat and evil. Then I am an evil prat and proud.

 

[Linford]

316563, member: 8064"]Rocker.
Mods have always been a bunch of preening poseurs, spending far too much time at clothes shops and the hairdressers.
You say it like its a bad thing far better than grooming your hair with half a pound of Tesco value lard and wearing jeans that can stand up on their own due to the dirt and grease

I think this must be the old skool attitude to Mods and Rockers.

The reality is that people are much more chilled out about it all nowadays. They have all grown up, and the old gang warfare attitudes are just a distant memory for 99% of those who do it.

I always give and get the nod from scooterists when out on my motorbike, and treat them like any other bikers on the road.

They are a lot more diehard than the Harley Davidson riding Lawyers and Accountants who just get their bikes out for a couple of sunny weekends in the summer. Many will ride 400 mile round trips in all weathers on bikes to events which struggle to cruise at 45mph. That is dedication, and that commands some respect

The most arrogant of other bikers I come across on the road are actually the BMW touring bike riders. They don't acknowledge another other apart from those also riding BMW's

 

[Primal Scream]

Mods weren't teenagers... they spent a lot of hard-earned money to look like that, and scooters weren't cheap to buy and run.... most of them were in the 20s, a lot were older and acted as the gang-leaders. This wasn't about schoolkids being pampered by rich parents.

I take note that you said most but I dont, at least fffrom my experiance agree, I was part of a loose collective called East Ham scooter boys not a gang as such but mostly ex pupils of a local school, we were all working class and none who was not still in their teens. We tended to go to a club in Clacton where their would be other groups of mods, no trouble at all.

None of us were rich but all of us were working, apprentice sparks in my case, my first scooter cost me £25 (about two weeks wages). The clothes thing is correct, we liked the Italian stuff and why not, looking the part has always been part of growing up and in my case still is important.

In about three years the only mod/rocker problem I had was being hit over the head with a studded belt whilst sitting on a bench with my girlfriend, it was not that it hurt but I ended up with blood all over my parka.

 

[Peteaud]

316563, member: 8064"]Rocker.
Mods have always been a bunch of preening poseurs, spending far too much time at clothes shops and the hairdressers.
it is far better grooming your hair with half a pound of Tesco value lard and wearing jeans that can stand up on their own due to the dirt and grease

FTFY

 

[Archie_tect]

I think you may be stereotyping all mods a little bit too much due to your own bitter recollections.
The early modernists were far too worried about their appearance and listening to Jazz to get into a fight with someone because they rode a motorbike or listened Gene Vincent, they might pity them.
It was only when it became mainstream and was reported sensationally in the tabloid press that there were increasing numbers of fights between mods and rockers. Quadrophenia telling the story so well.
As a 16 year old having saved up enough money to buy a beat up Vespa, spending my weekends hunting out rare imported jazz and RnB records, getting my trousers and suits tailor made at the back street tailors and going to all nighters at the Twisted Wheel in Manchester I hardly fit the stereotype you are portraying. I certainly never went looking for fights with any other youth subculture and neither did my friends.
If by wearing smart clothes, riding what is considered as a worldwide design classic, listening to fantastic music and dancing the night away I am a prat and evil. Then I am an evil prat and proud.

Fair enough. I accept you weren't a gang Mod... there are shades of grey in everything, but the street image I experienced was very different in Leeds to your happy teenage years. Bitter recollections? Certainly- stereotyping? No, it was the way it was, how is that stereotyping? Unless you want to have a series of classifications to demonstrate Modness, separating yourself in the process as a pioneering aesthete from the 'mainstream' gang culture.

Scarborough and Bridlington were no-go areas on Bank Holidays- it wasn't for the benefit of press inches.

Still it was a long time ago, so best leave it...

 

[Firestorm]

In 79 the I was "The Mod with the motorbike" in my home town
Still ride big bikes but follow the Mod style and would love an old scooter as well.
The rivalry was mainly a 60s thing with only those older rockers and kids copying Quadrophenia bringing it into the revival.
There was more aggro between Punks and Mods in 79
By early 80's and since, "mainstream Mod" is just Fred Perry, Ben Shermans and Harringtons with very little else of the Mod culture considered and most of those who are watching bands like the Rifles and the 70's / 80's acts still doing the round are 40 somethings in Fred Perrys.
Rarely see sharp clothing, quality shoes.
The Mod Culture forum has a lot of interest in old cycles too

 

[threebikesmcginty]

This thread has started to get too deep, can't we just sort it out with a fight?

 

[Archie_tect]

This thread has started to get too deep, can't we just sort it out with a fight?

Not again Mort...didn't work the last time!