More than 32,000 people have died on British roads in the past 10 years

[StuartG]

What age will you be happy for your kids to go to school on their own ?

Your are Eliza AICMFP.

You have to admire his fortitude in taking control and redirecting the thread. The thread has served its puropose. Perhaps it is time it was put to bed?

 

[very-near]

Would a reduction in speed limits make you happier to send your kids younger than you might otherwise?

No it wouldn't. Bear in mind that I've been where you are going as my kids are grown up now so I do have the experience of hindsight..

 

[very-near]

Where have you been and where are you going and what has hinsight taught you?

That parents of young children (or no children) can make all sorts of claims of how they are going to raise their offspring and would be quick to berrate anyone who dares to differ from their 'plan', but the reality is often very different.

How old did you say your kids were ?

 

[very-near]

They are concerned that their intelligent and road aware children will be run over by the idiot drivers who blast around the local roads.

The safe minimum requirement should not have to take into account these idiots. And why should it?

So the community is doing something about it.


And you also know that 20mph limits will certainly reduce this risk.

No I don't.

20mph limits are proven to save lives. What's the focus on? Slowing people down.

Yes, collision avoidance improvements would also help, but it's not one or the other, as you so regularly try to make it.



D'oh. We both know the answer.

And one right back at you-


At the point when this alert driver is alerted to the hazard, which is more dangerous?

• Him travelling at 30mph?
• Him travelling at 20mph?

Note that I'm pandering to you despite the fact that you can magic up however many scenarios you like, but the fact remains that 20mph limits improve road safety. Pretend that it's not the reduction in speed that makes the difference if you like, but it won't change anything. You'll still be wrong.

Speed limits are for idiots who don't know when to slow down as the hazards present. The irony is that many of the posted limits are also ignored, so I would always say that education to read the road and travel at whatever is the 'safe speed' is the safest course of action.

You cannot determine this by a 20 or a 30 or a 40 because we all know that deaths happen at all these speeds - and only and idiot would argue against this

 

[summerdays]

Originally Posted by very-near
What age will you be happy for your kids to go to school on their own ?

Originally Posted by User
It depends on a number of factors, but mainly two. The traffic, and risk from other people.

You forgot to take into account the child. Mine have varying levels of road awareness - the middle one I'm still nervous about and she is 12, and she never walked to primary school on her own unlike her elder sibling.

 

[very-near]

Yeah, I'd taken that as a given. Those two aside, I'd trust my seven year old now. There's also the consideration of the mates they're with and how responsible they are in a bunch.

I'm interested to hear what linf has to say about it.

Let me get this straight. You send your kids across busy inner city roads to school on his own ?

 

[summerdays]

Who said he had to cross busy inner city roads, one of my son's friends aged 8 walkes home alone - and doesn't have to cross one road

Each child/situation has to be looked at individually - I wouldn't let my son as he has to ride on a road shared by Dumper trucks, lorries and JCB's. Whilst he has learnt a lot from the experience - I would be stupid to allow him to cycle on his own with those vehicles.

 

[dellzeqq]

so cars have a place on our streets and kids don't? Nice.

 

[MacB]

so cars have a place on our streets and kids don't? Nice.

and the more we buy into the idea that walking/cycling for kids is unsafe the worse it will become

 

[jonesy]

so cars have a place on our streets and kids don't? Nice.

A kind of related point- there was an item on Radio 4 this lunchtime about road gritting. A Living Streets representive pointed out that most councils are ignoring the pavements, even when they've gritted the roads. The interviewer responded by saying something like "But surely they have to prioritise cars?". Sadly LS wasn't given time to challenge that, but I think the question illustrates how ingrained it has become into our society that roads are for cars, and the person making a journey by car has become more important than the person making a journey on foot. And the person using the street for purposes other than making a journey doesn't even figure...

 

[dellzeqq]

..which is why we're so crap at football

 

[very-near]

No.

1. Whatever gave you that idea?
   
2. You haven't answered the question why you've brought this up yet...
   
3. That's another question of yours I've answered promptly. Now it's only polite - 20 or 30 linf?

You either trust him or you don't. I'm sorry but you are sending out mixed messages here.

You say that you'd trust him on his own on a journey (to cross a road) provided that journey were on roads which were designated as 20mph zones ?

What happens when you get a driver who ignores the posted limits and is on drink, drugs or not fit to be behind a wheel (like Hannah Saff). Your 20 limits mean nothing to those who don't acknowledge them. How many million motorists get done (detected) for speeding in the UK each year 1 million, 2 million ?.

I'm not convinced that 20's across vast tracts would be ultimately productive, and that view is not just mine here.

The answer to your 20 or 30 is 'neither' and as I've had accidents at both speeds, It is an honest answer, and one garnered from real experience (not some dodgy CGI'd speed awareness film you sucked up), so change the record. That is the best you are getting from me!

 

[very-near]

Linf, an honest answer to an honest question for which we must thank you.

Just a couple of points...

1. Keep the kids out of it eh? Its not fair and not really a fair point really is it?
2. The view that a 20mph limit is not just your opinion, I would be interested in knowing who you refer to when you say, "that view is not just mine here"?

Anyway, apols to MrP for butting in, but my twopennethworth.

The point I am trying to make to MrP is it is better to have a near miss than any accident at any speed. I am all for raising driving standards. but I seriously believe that arbitrary limits across vast tracts which are applied 'because it saves lives innit' is not going to help. They will create frustration when it is clear that many instances of their application has not been thought through.

I can quote a local instance where ill thought out traffic planning caused massive problems and took 2 years before being resolved. It inconvenienced thousands of people every week, gridlocked the town, and many complained about being trapped in a multi story car park for hours on end because of it. The argument that they were put in to save lives is a disingenuous one which is designed purely to play on the heart strings.

Times this by 100 and you have your town wide 20 limits and then mass disobedience.

To treat all motorised road users like total idiots and not trust them to use either their experience or skills to keep themselves and others safe is just and idiotic way to carry on.

As for those who think the view is 'not just mine' StuartG has also called for a bit of intelligent application HERE

 

[marinyork]

I'm sorry I don't see what the traffic light has to do with 20 zones. Traffic lights do sometimes get redesigned.

 

[very-near]

I'm sorry I don't see what the traffic light has to do with 20 zones. Traffic lights do sometimes get redesigned.

MY, you aren't an idiot so when I use it as an example to draw a parallel where ill thought out judgment causes problems on the transport network, please don't act it.

These lights were a problem from the moment they were originally switched on and took a hard fought battle over 2 years to get the highways agency to admit they screwed up. I don't want to see a town wide limit set up, and then have to fight to get a bit of common sense back into the issue.

The light system was an over engineered solution to a problem which could have been sorted with a lot less hassle, and the parallel is that to put in town wide 20 's would be total overkill.