Most dangerous commute this morning in a long time

[BentMikey]

Goading? Not at all. Ask those who were around a year ago when we did Lee's filmed ride. That turned out super positive, and much sharing of mutual respect. I'm expecting Bryce to be a good and competent rider, and to learn from him.

 

[bad boy]

Fair enough, I do think the idea of filmed rides are a good idea and it would make an interesting discussion point, but it could be a little subjective in the sense that your ridding style will have to change depending on the environment.

I don't commute down any country lanes for instance but if I did I would imagine my ridding style would change to suite the environment. I would imagine that in this situation Bryce would have to alter his style of ridding to suite a really urban environment which no doubt your vid will show.

 

[Origamist]

Yes as I think I risk repeating myself ad nauseam and the thread has effectively been hijacked (apologies to OP) but my point again is I don't believe cyclists should act as road policemen - we shouldn't try to control the traffic behind us by slowing it down unless it's necessary and our motive is clear to drivers behind us - i.e. we are turning right or there is obvious danger ahead. I wouldn't expect a Fiat Panda to hog the outside lane of a motorway at 40mph because its driver feels unsafe being passed at speed. If I was behind said Panda, I wouldn't know why the driver was doing this and this might cause me to become frustrated and act impatiently. Same logic applies to cyclicts adopting 'primary' position without clear motive and for longer than necessary.

I guess you don't believe any road user should act as ""policeman"? For example, a car driver who feels the road conditions are such that 20mph is more suitable than 30mph? People (cyclists and drivers alike) make these decisions in order to keep themselves and others safe.

I don't think anyone is arguing that you should take the lane when it is not necessary or for longer than is necessary. What appears to be the nub of the disagreement is what constitutes "necessary" and your belief that cyclists should simply defer to speed - I will not compromise my safety just because it may irk the odd impatient motorist.

As for taking primary only when "our motive is clear to drivers behind" you can partly make your motive clear by rearward negotiation. However, lots of drivers do not appreciate the problems faced by cyclists and by riding defensively you can communicate these issues to motorists.

I don't think in terms of controlling motorised vehicles - I'm not a traffic tamer. However, you can influence driver behaviour and lane position is one factor. If I want to take the centre of the lane, I will not unduly worry if I delay motorists by a few seconds as they can often delay me further up the road. What's more, in the city, taking a primary position amongst moving traffic is sensible as I can be travelling at the same speed as cars, busues, vans etc.

 

[bryce]

I'd be semi up for being filmed in a chaingang. Really not sure what you want to achieve BM and I think your tone is slightly awkward/ patronising - trust it's not intended (i.e. you're not out to denigrate me, you'll leave your ego at home etc.) but can't do too much harm I guess. I'm not out to prove any points myself, wouldn't dream of telling someone else how to ride in London, and you'd find I'm a pretty boring rider (he says, ignoring Sod's Law). My commute is Richmond to Savile Row, 7am/ 7pm.

On Origamist's points - I agree entirely. I wouldn't ever compromise my safety either - no way - to a driver of a 1+ tonne potential killing machine. Likewise I wouldn't risk antagonising him/ her unnecessarily. And you're right - it's up to everyone to decide what is necessary for their safety - everyone will interpret that in a different way and it is indeed the nub of this debate. I see comical or potentially lethal cycling daily and don't take much notice (I probably pass 50 cyclists at least each way). As I've said in most of the posts - each to their own.

 

[jonny jeez]

I'd be semi up for being filmed in a chaingang. Really not sure what you want to achieve BM and I think your tone is slightly awkward/ patronising - trust it's not intended (i.e. you're not out to denigrate me, you'll leave your ego at home etc.) but can't do too much harm I guess. I'm not out to prove any points myself, wouldn't dream of telling someone else how to ride in London, and you'd find I'm a pretty boring rider (he says, ignoring Sod's Law). My commute is Richmond to Savile Row, 7am/ 7pm.

On Origamist's points - I agree entirely. I wouldn't ever compromise my safety either - no way - to a driver of a 1+ tonne potential killing machine. Likewise I wouldn't risk antagonising him/ her unnecessarily. And you're right - it's up to everyone to decide what is necessary for their safety - everyone will interpret that in a different way and it is indeed the nub of this debate. I see comical or potentially lethal cycling daily and don't take much notice (I probably pass 50 cyclists at least each way). As I've said in most of the posts - each to their own.

Bryce, the more I read from you on this topic, the more I am convinced that your view is not that far from my own.

The point you seem to make (apologies if I misinterpret here..or if it sounds patronising at all…it's not meant too) is "stay safe" but don’t go out of your way to antagonise.

I agree totally.

I have seen evidence on here, (video and in text) of us all helping to inflame a situation, I myself added to this fire this week by pulling up a lorry driver who then went on to have the last word later along the road (as TTcycle subtly reminded me, I should have let it go)

However…. and this bit is really key IMHO….…if you do the "right" stuff your position on the road is very rarely likely to antagoniseothers. To ensure this we need to keep in eye contact with drivers, (lots of looks back) thank them when we do hold them up,(I do this about 10 times a day) make a big effort to ensure that they see we know what we are doing (red lights, good signaling, sensible positioning and if needed, get out of there way if we can (I do this for busses a lot as they all help me every day)

Basically not appearing as if we own the road, rather that we own our fair share of it, as do others

I can only speak for myself (I have a similar run as you from the burb's into the thick of it in London) but In many months of riding that route, I have had only one serious issue, that was solved by my positioning on the road and was inflamed by my own attitude.

Jonny

PS, I think you and Mikey would have a great ride in together, I dont think your attitudes are actually that different.

 

[BentMikey]

PS, I think you and Mikey would have a great ride in together, I dont think your attitudes are actually that different.

+1

 

[ttcycle]

Out of curiosity Bryce - since you commented that you thought my mentioning of primary and secondary and being out in either in relation to the HGV going at a fast speed on a 20mph road with me riding at 18-20mph - since he started tailgating me right up to my back wheel, knew my intention in being in that lane since Id indicated and turned back to make eye contact and he was driving very fast on a road that wasn't overly wide...what would you have done and stopping and saluting him is not an option as you would have gone straight under his wheels.

I think holding my line and keeping my pace was the best option as:
Going left or right across the front of his vehicle to move to either direction -bearing in mind now that he was right behind me would have been dangerous since it would have slowed my pace down and he would have driven into myself and my bike.

Also bear in mind that I wasn't holding him up ultimately as firstly, it was a 20mph-it's not my fault he wants to speed and secondly, he then ended up needing the left lane anyway.

Blatant intimidation and I don't let people bully me off the roads.

Though have a funny story on yesterday's commute home- it was getting dark, had lights on and I was heading Southbound over London Bridge - the lights turn green and are clear on a green phase, it's clear ahead I cycle on- I notice a pedestrian crosses ahead without looking and then another does- press the brakes to emergency brake and know it's not going to stop me in time to not crash into pedestrian two and his suit and briefcase - shout out loudly - 'STOP' and thankfully he does in the middle of the crossing and then he rudely 'tuts' at me before stepping backwards onto the pavement and I shout back at him - 'it's a green light, don't cross and not look' and cycled off - can laugh about it now but it really got my heart thumping in my chest!! What's with the indignation- people do have a real problem at admitting mistakes - usually I don't comment but this was a proper hair raising moment- If I hadn't yelled out to him I would have crashed into him-what would he have done if I was a car...?Not a good week for cycle trauma hey?!

 

[bryce]

Out of curiosity Bryce - since you commented that you thought my mentioning of primary and secondary and being out in either in relation to the HGV going at a fast speed on a 20mph road with me riding at 18-20mph - since he started tailgating me right up to my back wheel, knew my intention in being in that lane since Id indicated and turned back to make eye contact and he was driving very fast on a road that wasn't overly wide...what would you have done and stopping and saluting him is not an option as you would have gone straight under his wheels.

Doesn't sound like you could done much else. An example of testosterone-fuelled food chain driving. He knows he's bigger than you and wants to prove a point by over-taking if only to be caught up again. I would have serious issues with an HGV tailgating me or any other cyclist though. No excuse for it. Drivers of vehicles like that needs to act responsibly - most do thankfully.

 

[lady_rider]

yes he could see I was a woman (though not emblazoned in anything pink coloured -which you'd think was de rigeur after going to the cycleshow this weekend-another story)

Sorry.. I may be responsible for all the pink, I love it and embrace it and can't really get enough of it...

There was a study done where a guy dressed up as a woman and got on average about 30cm (approx; can't remember exactly!) more room from motorists than when not dressed up. Get that pink jacket on... (not that it helps me though)

Man... what is it about motorists who use their vehicle as a weapon; is there a sense of detachment from what they're actually doing, ie potentially killing someone?

 

[ttcycle]

lady rider - I am not about to join you in decking myself out head to toe in pink or even worse that pastel crap 'they' (whoever they are) think is what we want-I can tolerate a little bit but hmmm..lol

In answer to your question - with some people the red mist descends and they just think entirely in terms of rage-lot of pissed off people out there and instead of sorting stuff they take it out on others. Sad state of world we live in.

 

[Wheeledweenie]

Off topic but on pink, I also enjoy it on my cycle gear but agree that it shouldn't be the only option for female cyclists. A bit like the fact everything's in teeny tiny sizes grrrrrrrrrr.

On topic, seems to me you did the right thing position wise, he was obviously a nob.

 

[cyberknight]

Not just in London ....

The idiots were out in force today on my return journey.

1.I am coming up to a roundabout in Repton and turning right so i make sure i am in close to the centre line after clearly indicating and making the drivers aware.
There is traffic with right of way so i stop at the give way line and again indicate my intentions .

The road is now clear so i pull off and see a woman in a chelsea tractor run straight across my path giving me some mouth , she had clearly seen me just could not be assed to wait .

2.Climbing past the old coal board labs in Bretby and keeping pace with the traffic in Primary when a numpty in an old citreon overtakes way to close so i shout "Thats a bit close " and his reply is the usual f*** Off. I follow as no other car is trying to squeeze me and i can hear him getting grief from his passenger

3.turning right into side road i see a wvm use my side of the road to turn right into the road i am in , if i had been another 30 foot forward i would have been squished luckily i saw him and think mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

it does not matter how well you ride or how many lights you have there will always be some idiot about either 1/2 asleep or just stupid just waiting to make your commute a little more stressful