Motorcycle crashes into cyclists

[Archie_tect]

Er, yes... that's the problem- having everyone [including clueless cyclists if we're being honest] out on the road at the same time!

 

[simon.r]

I don't know, but I suspect the requirements for legally riding a motorbike in California are less stringent than in the UK.

Edit - looks as if you only need to do a written test if you have a car licence already - http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/checklists/mc.htm

 

[Linford]

Linford, you've misunderstood, and have no idea what I believe since I didn't state it... he's passed his test but he's another numpty let loose on a motorbike which is clearly beyond his capabilities to control- he's not going to listen to advice because he doesn't have to now.

I passed my motorbike test in 1976 and have ridden with off duty police motorbike riders, it's relevant to all road users to understand their limits... you don't need to advise about competency.

I always consider that the more experienced people become, the better they judge when to slow down, and not speed up. I would be very surprised if I learned that the biker dude in the vid was over the speed limit.

 

[yello]

he was actually quite slow for the bend and was probably trying to improve his skills

My point exactly. The open road is not really the place to do that kind of thing.

On a different note, cycling on that stretch of road, (especially that corner) is very dangerous indeed. You will find plenty of video clips of totalled bikes and overturned cars too! As a cyclist, I would most definitely avoid the area due to high risk of collision alone.

People should not have to avoid an area because it's a known place for boy racers. It's the public road not a race track.

I'm not trying to be confrontational here. I understand the fun of riding. I'm a biker myself and I do break open road speed limits (though significantly less now than I did 10 years ago) and I use the advantages of my bike, e.g. when overtaking. However, I'd draw the line at testing myself for a youtube video. That kind of gung-ho riding is bound to lead to riding beyond your comfort zone and abilities - as it did here. As I said, on a track day it's fine but not anywhere where your 'practice' can end in injury to others.

 

[MaxInc]

I don't know, but I suspect the requirements for legally riding a motorbike in California are less stringent than in the UK.

Not that in the UK will teach you how to negotiate such bends during the standard DSA training or that even a 5 day Direct Access course offers enough time to master anything on two wheels. They are not even allowed to mention "counter steering" and recommend (but not enforce) advanced training for that. In a perfect world standards such as IAM or RoSPA should be the bar for any driver out there but I'm aware of how impractical it would be since it take so much time and practice to reach such standards.

The road remains a dangerous place filled with hazards at every corner. I understood and accepted the risks of riding a motorcycle, but as far as cycling on public roads is concerned, in my opinion is a far more vulnerable and dangerous sport.

 

[Boris Bajic]

If you believe that, you have little understanding of what is required to ride a motorcycle quickly and safely on the road..
IMO Passing a bike test is only the beginning of the process to competency on the open road....especially when a heavy machine with a lot of performance is concerned. It isn't like sitting in a car seat and turning the wheel..

This is an unusual point of view. Archie-Tect is right here in many ways. I see motorcyclists on modern litre-plus machinery who appear to have had only the minimum (mandatory) training and appear dialled into the warpspeed-accelaration buzz with little thought for corners and similar.

Your opening sentence has a mild whiff of trollery or self-appointed God or Motorcycling about it. I'm sure it wasn't meant that way, but its tone is unfortunate at best.

There are exceptions, but many motorcyclists (very often born-again middle-aged farts still expecting the power delivery of a GS550 from a GSX-R1000) seem quite unable to deal with the grip and changes of speed that are available today.

I rode for many years (stopping when parenthood intervened) and I raced a little, too. I knew and know many people who learned little after passing their test.

You may treat motorcycling like some Jedi quest for tarmac-enlightenment, but if so you are in a minority.

 

[Spinney]

I assumed Linford's post was saying that most motorcyclists do not ride safely on the roads, because they do not follow the learning process needed for competency.

I might be wrong...

 

[Linford]

This is an unusual point of view. Archie-Tect is right here in many ways. I see motorcyclists on modern litre-plus machinery who appear to have had only the minimum (mandatory) training and appear dialled into the warpspeed-accelaration buzz with little thought for corners and similar.

Your opening sentence has a mild whiff of trollery or self-appointed God or Motorcycling about it. I'm sure it wasn't meant that way, but its tone is unfortunate at best.

There are exceptions, but many motorcyclists (very often born-again middle-aged farts still expecting the power delivery of a GS550 from a GSX-R1000) seem quite unable to deal with the grip and changes of speed that are available today.

I rode for many years (stopping when parenthood intervened) and I raced a little, too. I knew and know many people who learned little after passing their test.

You may treat motorcycling like some Jedi quest for tarmac-enlightenment, but if so you are in a minority.

Racing and track riding are totally different skills to road riding. There are plenty of very quick track riders I'd not trust on a rideout and have not ever taken a bike test.

We never stop learning

 

[Boris Bajic]

Racing and track riding are totally different skills to road riding. There are plenty of very quick track riders I'd not trust on a rideout and have not ever taken a bike test.

We never stop learning

I read this to myself in a Yoda voice and it sounded quite clever. I had to change the word order for the full effect.

In standard RP it sounded like the pseudo-road-warrior "listen to Uncle Bert, sonny" philosophising of the drunk at every bar.

I may be misjudging you.

 

[GrasB]

Racing and track riding are totally different skills to road riding. There are plenty of very quick track riders I'd not trust on a rideout and have not ever taken a bike test.

We never stop learning

The basic skills are the same. The difference is how you apply those skills to the conditions & your risk assessments.

 

[Linford]

The basic skills are the same. The difference is how you apply those skills to the conditions & your risk assessments.

The first thing you do when going on the track is to take the mirrors off......there is a massive gulf between track and road

 

[GrasB]

The first thing you do when going on the track is to take the mirrors off......there is a massive gulf between track and road

Mirrors are part of risk assessment not fundamental bike control.

 

[Linford]

Mirrors are part of risk assessment not fundamental bike control.

Plenty of risk on the track though and you take a racing line, which can and does span the whole of the surface.

 

[GrasB]

The laws of physics & handling dynamics don't suddenly change because you're no longer on a public road. So the same bike handling fundamentals apply to both situations. However the risk sets involved in road & track riding are very different. It's important to know those risks & understand how those risks effect other people around.

 

[Linford]

The laws of physics & handling dynamics don't suddenly change because you're no longer on a public road. So the same bike handling fundamentals apply to both situations. However the risk sets involved in road & track riding are very different. It's important to know those risks & understand how those risks effect other people around.

For a bike, the handling characteristics change the faster you go because when you go faster, you lean over more, the contact patch of the tyres decrease with the lean angle, and the COG alters the further over you go.(loading up shear forces) body position on a bike can also make a big difference to the COG, and these loads.
You don't see these differences in cars, and thart is why it takes a lot more skill to go fast on a bike than a car.