Motorcycles in Bus lanes (with cycles)

jonny jeez

Legendary Member
Boris has confirmed an extension of the current trial....so keep your eyes open for motor bike in those london bus lanes!

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle...s-london-bus-lane-motorcycle-trial/12050.html

section here about poor driving standards that I thought was interesting

“However, the findings seem to show that both motorcycle users and pedal-cyclists may be bearing the brunt of falling driving standards.” said MAG General Secretary, Nich Brown

We are not alone!!!
 
Location
EDINBURGH
Unfortunately MAG are about as organised as a bag of springs and in reality don't give a crap about any users other than themselves, any perceived olive branch they hold out will be laced with thorns and likely to turn to dust if relied upon for any real support.
 

StuartG

slower but further
Location
SE London
Catrike UK said:
Unfortunately MAG are about as organised as a bag of springs and in reality don't give a crap about any users other than themselves, any perceived olive branch they hold out will be laced with thorns and likely to turn to dust if relied upon for any real support.
Unfortunately that is also true if you substitute a certain cycling TLA!

One can argue that each needs its lobby group and thankfully the decision will be made on the balance of evidence presented by both parties. And I defy anybody who ride both not to see that despite our differences it is to our mutual advantage to move the balance in 2/4 wheel transport planning including dual use of bus lanes.
 
Location
EDINBURGH
I do ride both, I have had a motorcycle for the last 28 years, but I am yet to be convinced that mixing fast and slow moving vehicles along with stop start behemoths in bus lanes is a sensible idea.
 

Norm

Guest
Catrike UK said:
I do ride both...
I thought that as you obviously know how useful MAG aren't for motorbikes.

Catrike UK said:
...I am yet to be convinced that mixing fast and slow moving vehicles along with stop start behemoths in bus lanes is a sensible idea.
Having watched some of the commuting videos, I reckon that the unpowered two wheelers are the fast ones. :biggrin:
 

gaz

Cycle Camera TV
Location
South Croydon
Catrike UK said:
I do ride both, I have had a motorcycle for the last 28 years, but I am yet to be convinced that mixing fast and slow moving vehicles along with stop start behemoths in bus lanes is a sensible idea.
i hope your not calling us uprights slow :ohmy:
 
OP
jonny jeez

jonny jeez

Legendary Member
StuartG said:
Unfortunately that is also true if you substitute a certain cycling TLA!

One can argue that each needs its lobby group and thankfully the decision will be made on the balance of evidence presented by both parties. And I defy anybody who ride both not to see that despite our differences it is to our mutual advantage to move the balance in 2/4 wheel transport planning including dual use of bus lanes.

Being bi-vehicular myself (Or am I ampi-vehicular... possibly even omni)I feel the test is worthy of moving into statute for a few reasons.

Not just becuse it feels safer or more efficient but because it is about time ALL the bus lanes were apodted in the same fashion (one way or another). One of my biggest distraction when on the loud bike is looking for the tiny blue sign (hidden behind the big red busses) that tells me if I can or cant ride the lane. Its bemuddling just how many variations there are with tiny sections of lane often being impassable even though they sit within two large sections that are (waterloo/westminster bridge road anyone?).

When I'm on the pushbike I do sometimes get buzzed by close passing motor bikes. This is both dangerous and distracting. But, the danger is not their closeness , its their speed. If these minority or riders kept the bikes within the speed limits within bus lanes (generally 30mph) these passes would have little detrimental effect on us..I'm afraid to say, I get passed by pushbikes at (or around) that speed now and again and the shock is not anywhere near as distracting, afterall, I am traveling at around 20mph myself so hte differential is slight
 

HJ

Cycling in Scotland
Location
Auld Reekie
This analysis of the recent report on the motorcycles in bus lanes trial makes for interesting reading. Just in case you can be bother here is the final Conclusion:

The report clearly shows that allowing motorcycles into bus lanes is increasing collision rates for both cyclists and motorcyclists, and is encouraging motorcyclists to break the law more. On this basis, the only defensible decision is to stop the trial immediately, to minimise further casualties. Instead, the Mayor has chosen to gloss over the casualty increases and continue the trial. The proposed education and enforcement is an obvious attempt to reduce casualties to a more acceptable level.

This trial proves that allowing motorcycles into bus lanes increases road danger, both for motorcyclists and cyclists. It should be stopped forthwith and no further trials to be conducted. By continuing the trial, TfL is failing in its duty of care to the public. Some Councils in London have opposed having motorcycles in bus lanes on their roads, with others going along with the trial: the evidence points to them stopping motorcycles being allowed in bus lanes.
 
OP
jonny jeez

jonny jeez

Legendary Member
This analysis of the recent report on the motorcycles in bus lanes trial makes for interesting reading. Just in case you can be bother here is the final Conclusion:

The report clearly shows that allowing motorcycles into bus lanes is increasing collision rates for both cyclists and motorcyclists, and is encouraging motorcyclists to break the law more. On this basis, the only defensible decision is to stop the trial immediately, to minimise further casualties. Instead, the Mayor has chosen to gloss over the casualty increases and continue the trial. The proposed education and enforcement is an obvious attempt to reduce casualties to a more acceptable level.

This trial proves that allowing motorcycles into bus lanes increases road danger, both for motorcyclists and cyclists. It should be stopped forthwith and no further trials to be conducted. By continuing the trial, TfL is failing in its duty of care to the public. Some Councils in London have opposed having motorcycles in bus lanes on their roads, with others going along with the trial: the evidence points to them stopping motorcycles being allowed in bus lanes.
I read the so called “report” (its been a quiet day) with interest.

It is full of assumption and comes across as very biased (and therefore holds no credibility with me).I don’t know who Colin Mckenzie is (i Googled a million variations of this name) but his summary that:


"The report clearly shows that allowing motorcycles into bus lanes is increasing collision rates for both cyclists and motorcyclists"

…is laughable, as (as Far as i can understand his own report) only ONE cycle/motorcycle collision was reported during the whole trial.

So why does this one incident lead to a “CLEAR" illustration that motorcycles should be removed from bus lanes, why does it not lead Mckenzie to conclude that Cycles should be removed from bus lanes or that bus lanes should be removed entirley...who is to say what happened and who was to blame. But no, Our Colin has already decided that Motorcycles are at fault

He also mentions how cyclists are encouraged to cycle closer to the kerb and fear motorbikes passing them at speed.

What does this have to do with bus lanes (and their shared use)

Any vehicle passing a cycle should do so at the same distance whether they are in a bus lane or not (so its not the fault of the bus lane , but the vehicle overtaking)
In other words, vehicles that pass too close will do so whether they are in a bus lane or not, because their drivers are ignorant.

And what about the Speed? I overtake cyclists on my motorbike at the speed limit of 30mph (or less), most often the differential in our speed is less than 5mph, sometimes, I fail to overtake at all, and am actually undertaken as the cyclists speed up (which is impressive on the part of any cyclist) This shows “buzzing” at speed is impossible within the boundaries of the law.

So, passing at speed is not the fault of the bus lane (or indicative of the bus lane if you prefer) but is the fault of the speeding vehicle that is overtaking.
Again, speeding vehicles will speed no matter what colour the road beneath their tyres happens to be.

In my view, if all vehicles (cars, busses, bikes and motorbike) apply the rules of the road, there will be no issue. Indeed the issue’s mentioned in Mckenzies biased summary are actually with drivers breaking the law and not drivers that happen to be using the bus lane when they do so
.


 

summerdays

Cycling in the sun
Location
Bristol
Whilst I'm haven't cycled in London and so can't comment on how the trial has gone there, I have to say I haven't really found them to be a problem for me in Bristol. Maybe in London you have much longer bus lanes and so the motorcycles use them more, or perhaps because I commute outside the peak commuting times normally.
 
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