Motorsports Thread

[Drago]

Christ, enforcing unwritten rules. They marshals would make good social workers!

 

[icowden]

Interestly, the marshals lay the blame at Max's door. They say because it was a late move Lewis was under no obligation to make room.

However, the regulations state that if the car is "substantially alongside", ie, half a cars length minimum, then the other car must yield - there is no rule that states any article of the sporting code does not apply in a late maneuver, so I'm unsure what part of the sporting code the marshals relied upon for that one.

I'm guessing that they were also looking at the racing line. Lewis had the line, and although Max was along side, any normal person in that position would have backed off. Verstappen didn't, didn't give room, hit the kerb and went flying. I don't think lewis could have given more room and reasonably made the chicane. Hence 3 place grid penalty.

 

[matticus]

The driver who starts in front would generally have the racing line!

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I'm guessing that they were also looking at the racing line. Lewis had the line, and although Max was along side, any normal person in that position would have backed off. Verstappen didn't, didn't give room, hit the kerb and went flying. I don't think lewis could have given more room and reasonably made the chicane. Hence 3 place grid penalty.

I feel Verstappen could learn from reviewing Hamilton's behaviour when the roles were reversed at the second chicane earlier in the race; he bailed out.

 

[Reynard]

I feel Verstappen could learn from reviewing Hamilton's behaviour when the roles were reversed at the second chicane earlier in the race; he bailed out.

This in spades.

I believe that's part of the reason why the stewards put the blame at Max's door. Although a 3-place grid drop is the minimum penalty that can be applied in this instance.

Some of you are confusing stewards with marshals. They both have a very different role at race meetings. Though each marshal's post will have an observer (a senior marshal), who will write up all the incidents in their patch and pass those onto the chief marshal for the meeting, who then passes that on to race control. That information is also available to the stewards, who are essentially judges-of-fact.

 

[icowden]

Worth saying that usually some of the Stewards are former racing drivers.
I did see somewhere an opinion that if Max learned to back off when necessary he'd be about 50 points ahead now. He hasn't grasped that if he takes out both cars then he doesn't score any points either.

 

[Beebo]

View: https://youtu.be/k660y7johY0


A good analysis here.
Max does need to learn when to back out of a situation.

 

[matticus]

Pretty unlucky to DNF both cars in what was basically a wheel-bashing incident in a very low-speed chicane. (it's a bit faster when no-one is in your way!)

 

[Reynard]

Worth saying that usually some of the Stewards are former racing drivers.
I did see somewhere an opinion that if Max learned to back off when necessary he'd be about 50 points ahead now. He hasn't grasped that if he takes out both cars then he doesn't score any points either.

Thank you.

This is the point I've been trying to make for several years, but more often than not, it falls on deaf ears.

Max will say no - without rhyme or reason, but no racecraft aside, it makes a vintage season.

There. I've had an attack of the limericks.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Worth saying that usually some of the Stewards are former racing drivers.
I did see somewhere an opinion that if Max learned to back off when necessary he'd be about 50 points ahead now. He hasn't grasped that if he takes out both cars then he doesn't score any points either.

I think Max has an issue - has long had an issue - in that he is surrounded by people who have reinforced this sense of his always having been in the right. His father in particular strikes me (well fortunately he didn't strike me, but he has of course struck others) as someone whose influence has been unhelpful. Similarly, the Red Bull establishment and its attendant culture seems to fuel him with this - not sure what to call it - 'cocksureness', perhaps? A driver needs some humility to be able to learn the difference between battles and wars.

 

[Reynard]

I think Max has an issue - has long had an issue - in that he is surrounded by people who have reinforced this sense of his always having been in the right. His father in particular strikes me (well fortunately he didn't strike me, but he has of course struck others) as someone whose influence has been unhelpful. Similarly, the Red Bull establishment and its attendant culture seems to fuel him with this - not sure what to call it - 'cocksureness', perhaps? A driver needs some humility to be able to learn the difference between battles and wars.

Same as Senna and Schumacher the Elder. And to a certain extent Sebastian Vettel.

They expect the Red Sea to part for them on command, but it's always someone else's fault when it doesn't.

Makes me wonder how Schumacher's career would've panned out if Jochen Mass hadn't stopped Derek Warwick from giving Schuey a right old pasting.

 

[matticus]

Same as Senna and Schumacher the Elder.

Regrettably, two of THE most worshipped drivers in living memory.

 

[Reynard]

Regrettably, two of THE most worshipped drivers in living memory.

Indeed.

Two men who didn't care who they stepped on in order to get their own way. Rose-tinted spectacles have a great deal to answer for.

I don't have much love for either.

 

[icowden]

Anyone watch Sochi (Russia) yesterday? One of the best races I have seen at Sochi.
I thought Bottas could have tried harder. Not sure why he wasn't doing much, and didn't block Verstappen.

 

[Tom B]

It was a good race... But I'm gutted.

Bottas was nowhere and I suppose if he wants to know why he was replaced he needs to look at this race