My 20 minute Cragg Vale hill climb challenge
- Thread starter ColinJ
- Start date
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PaulSB
Squire
- Location
- Chorley, Lancashire
We have a number of local hill climb segments I like to have a go at. My best results always come when I'm out on a ride, find myself a mile or so from a climb that's on the route and think to myself "feeling good today, I'll give it a go." Sometimes it works, others it doesn't. The times when it doesn't work I find I get half way or so and decide "Nah, not today."
At my level, and I suggest for most, planning, weather conditions, markers etc. make no difference. Obviously pouring rain and a stiff headwind do make a difference but then those aren't days when i think "feeling good today." 🤣
The single biggest demotivator is information. I used to have my Wahoo set to show a comparison between my best time and today. The moment the Wahoo started to show I was 5, 10, 15 seconds off my best pace my head would go.
The best way to tackle a PB is turn up on a day when you're feeling good. Simple.
At my level, and I suggest for most, planning, weather conditions, markers etc. make no difference. Obviously pouring rain and a stiff headwind do make a difference but then those aren't days when i think "feeling good today." 🤣
The single biggest demotivator is information. I used to have my Wahoo set to show a comparison between my best time and today. The moment the Wahoo started to show I was 5, 10, 15 seconds off my best pace my head would go.
The best way to tackle a PB is turn up on a day when you're feeling good. Simple.
OP
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ColinJ
Puzzle game procrastinator!
- Location
- Todmorden - Yorks/Lancs border
Assuming that the wind on the top half of the climb isn't going to be a major factor (and I have paced myself sensibly), I know that I reach the bus stop at the foot of the mid-climb ramp in close to half the total time. If that is close to half my PB it is worth getting stuck in for the rest of the climb.
I think that I will make a mental note of where I have got to after 20 minutes and try to push that closer and closer to the end of the climb on subsequent attempts.
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ColinJ
Puzzle game procrastinator!
- Location
- Todmorden - Yorks/Lancs border
I had another go this evening. The wind had dropped in the valley so I was hoping for a clear run at a PB.
I was doing well in the first half, getting to the bus turning layby in just under 13 minutes. In theory that could mean an overall time of around 26 minutes but as soon as I got up onto the open moor I could feel the drag of a breeze in my face. It wasn't a strong wind but it was enough to slow me down.
I kept making a decent effort for another few minutes but the chance of a PB had slipped away so I eventually slowed down and got to the top in 29 minutes, 2 minutes slower than my (current era) PB.
I had new GP5000s on the bike. I had chosen tyre pressures for comfort rather than lowest rolling resistance. Next time I will opt for performance rather than comfort! I could probably claw back another few watts that way.
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ColinJ
Puzzle game procrastinator!
- Location
- Todmorden - Yorks/Lancs border
Tyre pressures are a compromise between comfort, rolling resistance, and protection against snakebite punctures. Lower pressure is better for comfort; higher is better for protection, and generally for lower rolling resistance.
When I fitted the tyres I put 6.5 bar in the rear tyre and 6.0 bar in the front. They rolled very well and I was confident that I would avoid snakebites unless I hit a major bump at speed. The problem was that they felt very uncomfortable on my rough local road surfaces.
I reduced the pressures front and rear to 5.0 bar. The tyres then felt pretty comfortable, but I was worried when hitting bumps at speed, and they felt a bit stodgy.
I increased the pressure to 5.5 bar front and rear this evening. Assessment? Comfort was acceptable; I felt more protected on rough surfaces; the tyres rolled much better.
I called back home, increased the pressure to 5.75 bar front and rear, then went out again to ride some of the same roads that I had just done. I think that pressure is probably the best compromise for me at 79 kg, on a 9 kg bike, and toting another 3 kg or so of clothing, spares, tools and drink. 'Acceptably uncomfortable', good protection against snakebites, and lowish rolling resistance.
I will go back up the climb some time soon when weather conditions are good and see if I can my PB closer to 26 minutes .
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ColinJ
Puzzle game procrastinator!
- Location
- Todmorden - Yorks/Lancs border
A 51 km ride later... Nope - they are going to be lowered back down to 5.5 bar!
What may be 'acceptably uncomfortable' after 5.1 km definitely is not after ten times the distance!
Not only did I feel battered, but my bottle abandoned the bike in disgust on a bumpy descent.
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ColinJ
Puzzle game procrastinator!
- Location
- Todmorden - Yorks/Lancs border
I had another go at the climb this evening, with the same result as last time - 29 minutes exactly!
I really struggled to get going for the first couple of km of the climb. I was gasping for breath at a heart rate of 145-150 bpm, wondering how the heck I managed to average 150-151 bpm for the whole climb on previous attempts.
After the climb was over it eventually dawned on me that I am not warming up effectively enough. I had thought that the ride from Todmorden to the start of the climb would be enough but I just checked the data - 28 minutes at an average of only 119 bpm, with a maximum of 139 bpm. It's expecting a lot to set off on the climb and trying to hit 150+ bpm in a few seconds and hold that for nearly half an hour!
Once I had finally settled into the climbing my breathing recovered to comfortable deep breaths for the rest of the climb. I once again averaged 150 bpm for the whole climb with the second half at over 150 bpm, and a maximum of 157 bpm.
What I will do next time is set out as I did today but turn round at the bus stop before the mid-climb ramp and quickly ride back down to the start, u-turn, and only then start the timer. I will still be doing my warm-up gasping on the first part of the climb but not during my actual timed effort! It will be interesting to see what difference that makes.
I really struggled to get going for the first couple of km of the climb. I was gasping for breath at a heart rate of 145-150 bpm, wondering how the heck I managed to average 150-151 bpm for the whole climb on previous attempts.
After the climb was over it eventually dawned on me that I am not warming up effectively enough. I had thought that the ride from Todmorden to the start of the climb would be enough but I just checked the data - 28 minutes at an average of only 119 bpm, with a maximum of 139 bpm. It's expecting a lot to set off on the climb and trying to hit 150+ bpm in a few seconds and hold that for nearly half an hour!
Once I had finally settled into the climbing my breathing recovered to comfortable deep breaths for the rest of the climb. I once again averaged 150 bpm for the whole climb with the second half at over 150 bpm, and a maximum of 157 bpm.
What I will do next time is set out as I did today but turn round at the bus stop before the mid-climb ramp and quickly ride back down to the start, u-turn, and only then start the timer. I will still be doing my warm-up gasping on the first part of the climb but not during my actual timed effort! It will be interesting to see what difference that makes.
Or you could go via Woodhouse Rd and Mankiholes?
Ming the Merciless
There is no mercy
- Location
- Inside my skull
Just need to get 30% faster then.
N0bodyOfTheGoat
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Hampshire, UK
You need a day with a northerly or north northeasterly for a good time on Cragg, last one was perhaps 1st July?
Looks like it's a climb that can be split into three sections, with a nastier middle section, that will be so important for a good time.
Power data would help significantly to pace this, but going off just heart data, I'd stay just under estimated Lactate Threshold Heart Rate (Intervals site will give you this number, 98% of your highest 20min heart rate) until the steeper middle section.
I'm not sure you need a bigger warm up before the climb, maybe yesterday you simply weren't well rested ahead of your challenge and your heart couldn't respond so well.
Looks like it's a climb that can be split into three sections, with a nastier middle section, that will be so important for a good time.
Power data would help significantly to pace this, but going off just heart data, I'd stay just under estimated Lactate Threshold Heart Rate (Intervals site will give you this number, 98% of your highest 20min heart rate) until the steeper middle section.
I'm not sure you need a bigger warm up before the climb, maybe yesterday you simply weren't well rested ahead of your challenge and your heart couldn't respond so well.
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ColinJ
Puzzle game procrastinator!
- Location
- Todmorden - Yorks/Lancs border
That is a good idea. There are also a couple of little climbs in Tod that I could add on first (Park Rd and Stansfield Hall Rd). I would probably still do a quick blast up the first bit of the Cragg Vale climb, maybe up to the Robin Hood.
If so, my warm up would become this...
I would definitely be warmed up properly after that.
I watched that a couple of days ago. She was keen! After she got to Blackstone Edge she descended to Littleborough then turned round and climbed back up from there. (That is a shorter climb, but averages almost twice the gradient of Cragg Vale. It does often have the advantage of some wind assistance though.)
Ha ha - yes! 29 minutes is a time that I used to do easily when unfit and much heavier in my mid-40s. I have noticed the negative changes in the 25 years since then! I have lost about 40 bpm off my maximum heart rate for a start.
One change that I can do something about though is to ride more. I only average around 110 km/week through the year. A 50% increase could help a lot with my fitness.
I am fairly sure that I will never achieve a time of 20 minutes without massive wind assistance now, but I don't want that help. I just want to get as close to 20 minutes as I can on a (rare!) relatively wind-free day. TBH, if I could do it in 23 minutes that would be my all-time PB and I would be chuffed.
True, but see above.
Yes. I do have a power meter on my knockabout bike but not yet on my best bike. I will treat myself to some SPD power meter pedals shortly! Meanwhile, I was doing the climb at around that heart rate.
I was thinking that I had warmed up properly until I realised that my breathing and effort were improving just as the climb got harder. If warmed up but tired, the steep section would have felt harder.
I didn't reduce my effort at all in the 29 minutes - round about that 98% HR the whole way.
PS Actually, I have just had a closer look at the heart rate data...
I like the way that the heart rate plot is overlaid on the elevation profile. You can see where I was trying to get my heart rate up at the start of the big climb. You can also see that I struggled to maintain it. That is where I was gasping for dear life and was forced to back off a bit while I recovered. As the road steepened my effort increased and I have marked my peak effort at the top of the ramp. I then backed off a little bit again, before putting the bike in the big ring and making one last effort which I gave up on with about 750 metres to go once I confirmed that a PB was way off.
I think that with a proper warm up I could get my HR up to around 153 bpm sooner on the climb, without going into respiratory distress, and just hold it there. I would pace myself better on the ramp to avoid needing to recover after it. If my PB were possible with 1 km to go I think that I could sustain 160 bpm in one last big effort.
I will wait for a day with low wind speeds and at least a couple of days after any hard rides to make sure that I am fresh for another attempt. I will do the extended warm up and see how much difference it makes!
