My first run in with chav scum

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Arch

Married to Night Train
Location
Salford, UK
tdr1nka said:
You Mr. Hippo, offer very little of this.

Hear, hear.

Well done for keeping calm Sam. I tend to temper too quickly, and never have the confidence to do the thing that would truly repel most chavs - blow a kiss at them....:tongue:

With regard to primary, I've noticed myself getting a bit less confident in the last few weeks - on my commute there are three pinch points where I should take primary to absolutely stop anyone pushing past, and I'm failing to. Don't know why. Maybe my winter bike being heavier (and my bottle dynamo creating quite a drag), and my back hurting a bit means I don't feel I can put full power on to keep the speed up. I've been pretty cautious because of the snow, ice and slush, maybe that's making me more timorous? I do make sure I glance back very frequently as I approach the points, and that often has the effect of holding someone back, but I need to be firm about moving out.
 

wafflycat

New Member
Well done Sam, bonnie laad, well done. It's hard to keep the cool and refrain from telling the idiots to haddaway and sh*te. :tongue:
 

Crankarm

Guru
Location
Nr Cambridge
Sam it happens to all of us, you are not alone. You will gradually become very seasoned to it. You are getting a taste of what it is like to cycle on the roads of Britain today. Hopefully another such incident won't occur for some time. The rational of us here sympathise with you.

I would make just two points.

All this riding primary courtesy of Cyclecraft is all very well and I guess it has it's place where absolutely necessary, but if it is used to merely prove a point to motorists that here I am, a cyclist, and I am going to cycle down the middle of the road and hold you up just because I can, then I feel it may be rather counter productive. Not suggesting you did this at all, so no criticism of you at all. But some others on here I know cycle primary at every opportunity. Yes, cycle assertively and confidently, but when push comes to shove, when a driver is intent on passing you, where ever you position your bike on the road, a cyclist is going to come off a lot worse than a car, van or lorry if there is a collision. This is the reality so it is better to yield. Think "Pride before a fall". Fortunately few drivers actually want to force us off the road or kill us despite this not always appearing the case. The trick is to read the tell tale signs where this might happen and retain control of the situation. This will come with experience. You can always turn off, stop at the side of the road, let them pass, pretend to fiddle with your panniers, fettle your bottom bracket, adjust your light, whatever, in seconds they will be gone, then head off as you were, happy and safe. You can continue to curse them if you want for about a minute. Better to do this rather than risk a confrontation.

Unfortunately you do get chav scum from time to time behaving as you have described. I have had all that you describe, as they go by they lean out the window shout abuse, chuck rubbish at you, half full drinks cans, bottles and bags of rubbish. Fortunately this has only happened a few times in 30 years of cycling but depressingly and worringly in the last few years only.

And the other point finally. Even if you believe you are without reproach in an incident, that is 100% the other party's fault, you might consider twice whether it is worth posting on here or similar such place, as for sure as apples grow on trees, there are always trolls and f'wits that will try to take issue with and make out you were the author or cause of your incident or alternatively totally hijack your thread in a totally unexpected and irrelevant direction. These folk are probably no more than care in community patients.

For the situations that do seriously look like escalating and you will have at least one - carry a camera and phone which are easily accessible.

I think the best handling of a potentially very serious situation where a cyclist could have been seriously assualted, a car (not a chav car of IIRC but a newish Mondeo) slammed on it's brakes after a road cyclist put up his middle finger at it for close passing. Ok, not the brightest thing to do but understandable. The occupants were either watching or driver was purposely looking in this mirrors for a reaction. Two really nasty looking blokes got out, the cyclist immediately started filming them on his mobile as they came for him. He shouted to them(crapping himself) "Smile for my wife as she is a traffic police officer and I have just sent pics of you and your car reg to her saying HELP!" The 2 thugs stopped as they weren't sure if it was bluff or truth, made a threatening grimace, then turned back toward the car and left as quickly as they had stopped as they knew it wasn't worth it and hastily left.

It's survival out there. You appear to be doing everything right. I'm sure you do but there are is no substitute for frequently looking behind.

Safe and happy riding Sam.
 

Crankarm

Guru
Location
Nr Cambridge
Sam it happens to all of us, you are not alone. You will gradually become very seasoned to it. You are getting a taste of what it is like to cycle on the roads of Britain today. Hopefully another such incident won't occur for some time. The rational of us here sympathise with you.

I would make just two points.

All this riding primary courtesy of Cyclecraft is all very well and I guess it has it's place where absolutely necessary, but if it is used to merely prove a point to motorists that here I am, a cyclist, and I am going to cycle down the middle of the road and hold you up just because I can, then I feel it may be rather counter productive. Not suggesting you did this at all, so no criticism of you at all. But some others on here I know cycle primary at every opportunity. Yes, cycle assertively and confidently, but when push comes to shove, when a driver is intent on passing you, where ever you position your bike on the road, a cyclist is going to come off a lot worse than a car, van or lorry if there is a collision. This is the reality so it is better to yield. Think "Pride before a fall". Fortunately few drivers actually want to force us off the road or kill us despite this not always appearing the case. The trick is to read the tell tale signs where this might happen and retain control of the situation. This will come with experience. You can always turn off, stop at the side of the road, let them pass, pretend to fiddle with your panniers, fettle your bottom bracket, adjust your light, whatever, in seconds they will be gone, then head off as you were, happy and safe. You can continue to curse them if you want for about a minute. Better to do this rather than risk a confrontation.

Unfortunately you do get chav scum from time to time behaving as you have described. I have had all that you describe, as they go by they lean out the window shout abuse, chuck rubbish at you, half full drinks cans, bottles and bags of rubbish. Fortunately this has only happened a few times in 30 years of cycling but depressingly and worringly in the last few years only.

And the other point finally. Even if you believe you are without reproach in an incident, that is 100% the other party's fault, you might consider twice whether it is worth posting on here or similar such place, as for sure as apples grow on trees, there are always trolls and f'wits that will try to take issue with and make out you were the author or cause of your incident or alternatively totally hijack your thread in a totally unexpected and irrelevant direction. These folk are probably no more than care in community patients.

For the situations that do seriously look like escalating and you will have at least one - carry a camera and phone which are easily accessible.

I think the best handling of a potentially very serious situation where a cyclist could have been seriously assualted, a car (not a chav car of IIRC but a newish Mondeo) slammed on it's brakes after a road cyclist put up his middle finger at it for close passing. Ok, not the brightest thing to do but understandable. The occupants were either watching or driver was purposely looking in this mirrors for a reaction. Two really nasty looking blokes got out, the cyclist immediately started filming them on his mobile as they came for him. He shouted to them(crapping himself) "Smile for my wife as she is a traffic police officer and I have just sent pics of you and your car reg to her saying HELP!" The 2 thugs stopped as they weren't sure if it was bluff or truth, made a threatening grimace, then turned back toward the car and left as quickly as they had stopped as they knew it wasn't worth it and hastily left.

It's survival out there. You appear to be doing everything right. I'm sure you do but there are is no substitute for frequently looking behind.

Safe and happy riding Sam.
 

tdr1nka

Taking the biscuit
Crankarm said:
And the other point finally. Even if you believe you are without reproach in an incident, that is 100% the other party's fault, you might consider twice whether it is worth posting on here or similar such place, as for sure as apples grow on trees, there are always trolls and f'wits that will try to take issue with and make out you were the author or cause of your incident or alternatively totally hijack your thread in a totally unexpected and irrelevant direction. These folk are probably no more than care in community patients.

I wouldn't say to not post threads like this just because of one troll.
Mr. Hippo said(rather harshly IMO)for Sam to simply stop moaning and carry on as he didn't like threads like this.:thumbsup:

Enough folk have pulled Mr. Hippo up for this error so I think Sam is otherwise still getting some sound advice.

The incidents described in this thread are in regard to 'chav' drivers not being able to recognise cyclists as fellow road users at all, regardless of their road positioning.
'Chav' drivers aren't interested as to why a cyclist may, quite rightly be blocking their way and these drivers ignore the care of duty they have for vulnerable road users.

As has been said already, taking primary is about making your position on the road safer and perfectly clear to the following traffic.
Just because some impatient drivers have no clue of, or any interest in, why a cyclist might be holding them up doesn't give them the right to bully them out of the way, ever.

Your safety is paramount but then so is the right to continue your journey without such hassle.

No driver is really going to want to run you down.
A very sad and minor percentage will enjoy giving you the impression they do.
Once in a blue moon an even tinier percentage of drivers might even have a go.
I've been there and it's terrifying.

But you need to remember that this is a miniscule amount of drivers considering how many we encounter day to day.

Drivers see and generally respect confident cyclists who make eye contact and indicate their intentions clearly and in good time.

Skulking in the gutter or being hesitant and timid makes you virtually invisible to traffic and is far more likely to get you into grief than taking primary, as and where you feel you need to.
 

tdr1nka

Taking the biscuit
Crankarm said:
And the other point finally. Even if you believe you are without reproach in an incident, that is 100% the other party's fault, you might consider twice whether it is worth posting on here or similar such place, as for sure as apples grow on trees, there are always trolls and f'wits that will try to take issue with and make out you were the author or cause of your incident or alternatively totally hijack your thread in a totally unexpected and irrelevant direction. These folk are probably no more than care in community patients.

I wouldn't say to not post threads like this just because of one troll.
Mr. Hippo said(rather harshly IMO)for Sam to simply stop moaning and carry on as he didn't like threads like this.:laugh:

Enough folk have pulled Mr. Hippo up for this error so I think Sam is otherwise still getting some sound advice.

The incidents described in this thread are in regard to 'chav' drivers not being able to recognise cyclists as fellow road users at all, regardless of their road positioning.
'Chav' drivers aren't interested as to why a cyclist may, quite rightly be blocking their way and these drivers ignore the care of duty they have for vulnerable road users.

As has been said already, taking primary is about making your position on the road safer and perfectly clear to the following traffic.
Just because some impatient drivers have no clue of, or any interest in, why a cyclist might be holding them up doesn't give them the right to bully them out of the way, ever.

Your safety is paramount but then so is the right to continue your journey without such hassle.

No driver is really going to want to run you down.
A very sad and minor percentage will enjoy giving you the impression they do.
Once in a blue moon an even tinier percentage of drivers might even have a go.
I've been there and it's terrifying.

But you need to remember that this is a miniscule amount of drivers considering how many we encounter day to day.

Drivers see and generally respect confident cyclists who make eye contact and indicate their intentions clearly and in good time.

Skulking in the gutter or being hesitant and timid makes you virtually invisible to traffic and is far more likely to get you into grief than taking primary, as and where you feel you need to.
 

BentMikey

Rider of Seolferwulf
Location
South London
It's amazing how very wrong the ideas some get about primary can be. +1 to tdr1nka.
 

ttcycle

Cycling Excusiast
+1 tdr1nka - spot on. assertiveness and knowing the road and other road users on it ie the cyclist's fifth sense.

PS it isn't about being an arrogant cyclist -far from it
 

ttcycle

Cycling Excusiast
+1 tdr1nka - spot on. assertiveness and knowing the road and other road users on it ie the cyclist's fifth sense.

PS it isn't about being an arrogant cyclist -far from it
 

GrasB

Veteran
Location
Nr Cambridge
There are a number of reasons not to ride in primary, however not inconveniencing motorists imho isn't one of them. The reason for this is simple; if they can't pass you in primary they shouldn't be passing you in secondary! The main reason I don't cycle in primary a lot of the time is that the primary line is typically a deposition point for road debris & that means a much higher risk of punctures & hitting large enough object to destabilise the bike.
 

GrasB

Veteran
Location
Nr Cambridge
There are a number of reasons not to ride in primary, however not inconveniencing motorists imho isn't one of them. The reason for this is simple; if they can't pass you in primary they shouldn't be passing you in secondary! The main reason I don't cycle in primary a lot of the time is that the primary line is typically a deposition point for road debris & that means a much higher risk of punctures & hitting large enough object to destabilise the bike.
 

gaz

Cycle Camera TV
Location
South Croydon
GrasB said:
There are a number of reasons not to ride in primary, however not inconveniencing motorists imho isn't one of them. The reason for this is simple; if they can't pass you in primary they shouldn't be passing you in secondary! The main reason I don't cycle in primary a lot of the time is that the primary line is typically a deposition point for road debris & that means a much higher risk of punctures & hitting large enough object to destabilise the bike.

but most pot holes are in secondary.. six of one half a dozen of the other.
 

gaz

Cycle Camera TV
Location
South Croydon
GrasB said:
There are a number of reasons not to ride in primary, however not inconveniencing motorists imho isn't one of them. The reason for this is simple; if they can't pass you in primary they shouldn't be passing you in secondary! The main reason I don't cycle in primary a lot of the time is that the primary line is typically a deposition point for road debris & that means a much higher risk of punctures & hitting large enough object to destabilise the bike.

but most pot holes are in secondary.. six of one half a dozen of the other.
 
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