GrasB
Veteran
- Location
- Nr Cambridge
Much easier to spot, & thus avoid, a pot hole at speed than assess exactly which bit of road isn't firmly attached to the bit below it.gaz said:
My first run in with chav scum
- Thread starter Sam Kennedy
- Start date
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GrasB
Veteran
- Location
- Nr Cambridge
Much easier to spot, & thus avoid, a pot hole at speed than assess exactly which bit of road isn't firmly attached to the bit below it.gaz said:
Crankarm said:
What a shame to have to say to a newbie cyclist that they have to expect to get used to bullying from other road users.
The thing about 'primary' is that, if push comes to shove, it gives you somewhere to yield to - unlike if you're riding in the gutter....
2Loose
Guru
- Location
- Loughborough, Leicestershire.
Lurker said:
Secondary is not 'in the gutter'.
It doesn't matter if you ride a motorbike, drive a car, walk or whatever, you will face abuse while travelling at some point due to ill tempered, ill educated and generally angry people.
Learn to act in a manner that minimises this risk and also, learn to shrug off the times when you are in the right but still get beeped or shouted at. Knowledge is power, pat yourself on the back that you are not one of the numpties.
2Loose
Guru
- Location
- Loughborough, Leicestershire.
Lurker said:
Secondary is not 'in the gutter'.
It doesn't matter if you ride a motorbike, drive a car, walk or whatever, you will face abuse while travelling at some point due to ill tempered, ill educated and generally angry people.
Learn to act in a manner that minimises this risk and also, learn to shrug off the times when you are in the right but still get beeped or shouted at. Knowledge is power, pat yourself on the back that you are not one of the numpties.
2Loose said:
Fair enough. Just making the point that primary riding position gives the cyclist room for manoeuvre. Secondary does too - though not as much.
2Loose said:
True. I've never heard any driver say that they stopped driving because they had abuse from other road users, though.
2Loose said:
Agree with this as far as it goes - but how you react also depends on whether you think bullying with a vehicle is something you want to try to stop. Campaigning can be a very constructive way of dealing with other people's behaviour if it puts you in danger or makes cycling feel less safe. Remembering that fear of 'the traffic' is the no. 1 reason why people say they don't cycle in this country, and that the more people cycle, the safer cycling becomes for all of us.
2Loose said:
Fair enough. Just making the point that primary riding position gives the cyclist room for manoeuvre. Secondary does too - though not as much.
2Loose said:
True. I've never heard any driver say that they stopped driving because they had abuse from other road users, though.
2Loose said:
Agree with this as far as it goes - but how you react also depends on whether you think bullying with a vehicle is something you want to try to stop. Campaigning can be a very constructive way of dealing with other people's behaviour if it puts you in danger or makes cycling feel less safe. Remembering that fear of 'the traffic' is the no. 1 reason why people say they don't cycle in this country, and that the more people cycle, the safer cycling becomes for all of us.
Sheffield_Tiger
Legendary Member
Here's a strong case for taking primary where it could look to the unititiated that a cyclist was being deliberately awkwardand, "should be in the cycle lane"
http://tinyurl.com/yhjnlfe
Now obviously it would depend on the time of day, bus lane operation etc to some degree, but this innocuous looking junction has a number of potential hazards. It is on the level (slightly sloping down in fact) so at least there is the opportunity for reasonable speed.
1) As can be seen, cars often nose out into the cycle lane awaiting the opportunity. Even outside of operational hours (as I am guessing from the lack of a traffic queue, this shot was taken) they are often unaware that the bus lane is open to them hours so creep out waiting to join the middle lane
2) There is a post smack bang next to the drivers' side window - potentially distracting enough for a SMIDSY case where a driver is expecting to see a bus or the driver glances at that moment where the post is in direct eyeline between cyclist and motorist. Moving out of the cycle lane and into the middle of the bus lane increases a cyclists visibility.
3) When the bus lane is in operation, there is queuing traffic in the other two lanes usually. The bus lane is not wide enough to allow a bus to pass a cyclist on its nearside and a car on its offside, safely. Also the ignorant and arrogant (dangerous) drivers tend to cut down the bus lane at speed to push in front ahead (the police sometimes lie in wait at the pub car park just ahead)
4) Approaching the roundabout 200 yards or so away, cars begin to cut in before the bus lane ends (even before the OPTIONAL off-road cycle path cuts away from the road). Cycles are not always seen in nearside mirrors before cars pull left. A car suddenly pulling left into you whilst you are in the gutter - no escape route. If you are in primary, though you may be NEARER the car as it turns, you have given yourself the space to swerve left giving you a few yards extra stopping space to get out of trouble.
I know all these things from using this route daily, but I can totally see why it may seem to someone who doesn't ride, or who doesn't know the road, might think primary on the approach to this junction given the presence of a marked cycle path, was being deliberately antagonistic. Regardless, I am not going to be squeezed and squashed by a bus or propelled over a creeping car bonnet for the PR of taking 10mph off someone's speed for 3-400 yards
http://tinyurl.com/yhjnlfe
Now obviously it would depend on the time of day, bus lane operation etc to some degree, but this innocuous looking junction has a number of potential hazards. It is on the level (slightly sloping down in fact) so at least there is the opportunity for reasonable speed.
1) As can be seen, cars often nose out into the cycle lane awaiting the opportunity. Even outside of operational hours (as I am guessing from the lack of a traffic queue, this shot was taken) they are often unaware that the bus lane is open to them hours so creep out waiting to join the middle lane
2) There is a post smack bang next to the drivers' side window - potentially distracting enough for a SMIDSY case where a driver is expecting to see a bus or the driver glances at that moment where the post is in direct eyeline between cyclist and motorist. Moving out of the cycle lane and into the middle of the bus lane increases a cyclists visibility.
3) When the bus lane is in operation, there is queuing traffic in the other two lanes usually. The bus lane is not wide enough to allow a bus to pass a cyclist on its nearside and a car on its offside, safely. Also the ignorant and arrogant (dangerous) drivers tend to cut down the bus lane at speed to push in front ahead (the police sometimes lie in wait at the pub car park just ahead)
4) Approaching the roundabout 200 yards or so away, cars begin to cut in before the bus lane ends (even before the OPTIONAL off-road cycle path cuts away from the road). Cycles are not always seen in nearside mirrors before cars pull left. A car suddenly pulling left into you whilst you are in the gutter - no escape route. If you are in primary, though you may be NEARER the car as it turns, you have given yourself the space to swerve left giving you a few yards extra stopping space to get out of trouble.
I know all these things from using this route daily, but I can totally see why it may seem to someone who doesn't ride, or who doesn't know the road, might think primary on the approach to this junction given the presence of a marked cycle path, was being deliberately antagonistic. Regardless, I am not going to be squeezed and squashed by a bus or propelled over a creeping car bonnet for the PR of taking 10mph off someone's speed for 3-400 yards
Sheffield_Tiger
Legendary Member
Here's a strong case for taking primary where it could look to the unititiated that a cyclist was being deliberately awkwardand, "should be in the cycle lane"
http://tinyurl.com/yhjnlfe
Now obviously it would depend on the time of day, bus lane operation etc to some degree, but this innocuous looking junction has a number of potential hazards. It is on the level (slightly sloping down in fact) so at least there is the opportunity for reasonable speed.
1) As can be seen, cars often nose out into the cycle lane awaiting the opportunity. Even outside of operational hours (as I am guessing from the lack of a traffic queue, this shot was taken) they are often unaware that the bus lane is open to them hours so creep out waiting to join the middle lane
2) There is a post smack bang next to the drivers' side window - potentially distracting enough for a SMIDSY case where a driver is expecting to see a bus or the driver glances at that moment where the post is in direct eyeline between cyclist and motorist. Moving out of the cycle lane and into the middle of the bus lane increases a cyclists visibility.
3) When the bus lane is in operation, there is queuing traffic in the other two lanes usually. The bus lane is not wide enough to allow a bus to pass a cyclist on its nearside and a car on its offside, safely. Also the ignorant and arrogant (dangerous) drivers tend to cut down the bus lane at speed to push in front ahead (the police sometimes lie in wait at the pub car park just ahead)
4) Approaching the roundabout 200 yards or so away, cars begin to cut in before the bus lane ends (even before the OPTIONAL off-road cycle path cuts away from the road). Cycles are not always seen in nearside mirrors before cars pull left. A car suddenly pulling left into you whilst you are in the gutter - no escape route. If you are in primary, though you may be NEARER the car as it turns, you have given yourself the space to swerve left giving you a few yards extra stopping space to get out of trouble.
I know all these things from using this route daily, but I can totally see why it may seem to someone who doesn't ride, or who doesn't know the road, might think primary on the approach to this junction given the presence of a marked cycle path, was being deliberately antagonistic. Regardless, I am not going to be squeezed and squashed by a bus or propelled over a creeping car bonnet for the PR of taking 10mph off someone's speed for 3-400 yards
http://tinyurl.com/yhjnlfe
Now obviously it would depend on the time of day, bus lane operation etc to some degree, but this innocuous looking junction has a number of potential hazards. It is on the level (slightly sloping down in fact) so at least there is the opportunity for reasonable speed.
1) As can be seen, cars often nose out into the cycle lane awaiting the opportunity. Even outside of operational hours (as I am guessing from the lack of a traffic queue, this shot was taken) they are often unaware that the bus lane is open to them hours so creep out waiting to join the middle lane
2) There is a post smack bang next to the drivers' side window - potentially distracting enough for a SMIDSY case where a driver is expecting to see a bus or the driver glances at that moment where the post is in direct eyeline between cyclist and motorist. Moving out of the cycle lane and into the middle of the bus lane increases a cyclists visibility.
3) When the bus lane is in operation, there is queuing traffic in the other two lanes usually. The bus lane is not wide enough to allow a bus to pass a cyclist on its nearside and a car on its offside, safely. Also the ignorant and arrogant (dangerous) drivers tend to cut down the bus lane at speed to push in front ahead (the police sometimes lie in wait at the pub car park just ahead)
4) Approaching the roundabout 200 yards or so away, cars begin to cut in before the bus lane ends (even before the OPTIONAL off-road cycle path cuts away from the road). Cycles are not always seen in nearside mirrors before cars pull left. A car suddenly pulling left into you whilst you are in the gutter - no escape route. If you are in primary, though you may be NEARER the car as it turns, you have given yourself the space to swerve left giving you a few yards extra stopping space to get out of trouble.
I know all these things from using this route daily, but I can totally see why it may seem to someone who doesn't ride, or who doesn't know the road, might think primary on the approach to this junction given the presence of a marked cycle path, was being deliberately antagonistic. Regardless, I am not going to be squeezed and squashed by a bus or propelled over a creeping car bonnet for the PR of taking 10mph off someone's speed for 3-400 yards
I find the above opinion #49 quite interesting as that stretch is not regarded as dangerous as other stretches of Ecclesall road for almost identical reasons. In anycase the majority of aggro I get is on dual carriageways whether there is a bus lane, cycle lane or not. I think you're reading a bit too much into the presence of the cycle lane imho.
I find the above opinion #49 quite interesting as that stretch is not regarded as dangerous as other stretches of Ecclesall road for almost identical reasons. In anycase the majority of aggro I get is on dual carriageways whether there is a bus lane, cycle lane or not. I think you're reading a bit too much into the presence of the cycle lane imho.
Sheffield_Tiger
Legendary Member
I'm not suggesting its particularly dangerous. Agreed the bit between Hunters Bar and Wards is far more dangerous (but its not on my route - thankfully!) I find it reasonably incident-free BUT I would rather keep it that way.
Usually you get the whole bus lane anyway since most sheep never drive in a bus lane even when its not in operation
After the junction if something is following me, I will happily pull in if traffic conditions make it safe.
It just struck me as offering reasonable illustrations of why primary might be taken when its not immediately obvious. Given that 20-25 is easily attainable anyway.
Usually you get the whole bus lane anyway since most sheep never drive in a bus lane even when its not in operation
After the junction if something is following me, I will happily pull in if traffic conditions make it safe.
It just struck me as offering reasonable illustrations of why primary might be taken when its not immediately obvious. Given that 20-25 is easily attainable anyway.
Sheffield_Tiger
Legendary Member
I'm not suggesting its particularly dangerous. Agreed the bit between Hunters Bar and Wards is far more dangerous (but its not on my route - thankfully!) I find it reasonably incident-free BUT I would rather keep it that way.
Usually you get the whole bus lane anyway since most sheep never drive in a bus lane even when its not in operation
After the junction if something is following me, I will happily pull in if traffic conditions make it safe.
It just struck me as offering reasonable illustrations of why primary might be taken when its not immediately obvious. Given that 20-25 is easily attainable anyway.
Usually you get the whole bus lane anyway since most sheep never drive in a bus lane even when its not in operation
After the junction if something is following me, I will happily pull in if traffic conditions make it safe.
It just struck me as offering reasonable illustrations of why primary might be taken when its not immediately obvious. Given that 20-25 is easily attainable anyway.
I agree, but I get the same behaviour on nearly all dual carriageways in sheffield, it annoys the hell out of some motorists being in primary even at high speed.
I'm not sure they haven't got some grand scheme for it as they've decided that the Hanover Way cycle paths aren't wide enough and trying to join the other inner ring road bits up.
I'm not sure they haven't got some grand scheme for it as they've decided that the Hanover Way cycle paths aren't wide enough and trying to join the other inner ring road bits up.
I agree, but I get the same behaviour on nearly all dual carriageways in sheffield, it annoys the hell out of some motorists being in primary even at high speed.
I'm not sure they haven't got some grand scheme for it as they've decided that the Hanover Way cycle paths aren't wide enough and trying to join the other inner ring road bits up.
I'm not sure they haven't got some grand scheme for it as they've decided that the Hanover Way cycle paths aren't wide enough and trying to join the other inner ring road bits up.
