My first run in with chav scum

[Sam Kennedy]

I agree, but I get the same behaviour on nearly all dual carriageways in sheffield, it annoys the hell out of some motorists being in primary even at high speed.

Why do you take primary on a dual carriageway?
I very very rarely cycle on dual carriageways, but I see no reason to take primary, since there will be no parked cars, but I'm guessing I'm missing some sort of obvious hazard? (It's late, i'm tired)

 

[Sam Kennedy]

I agree, but I get the same behaviour on nearly all dual carriageways in sheffield, it annoys the hell out of some motorists being in primary even at high speed.

Why do you take primary on a dual carriageway?
I very very rarely cycle on dual carriageways, but I see no reason to take primary, since there will be no parked cars, but I'm guessing I'm missing some sort of obvious hazard? (It's late, i'm tired)

 

[gaz]

Why do you take primary on a dual carriageway?
I very very rarely cycle on dual carriageways, but I see no reason to take primary, since there will be no parked cars, but I'm guessing I'm missing some sort of obvious hazard? (It's late, i'm tired)

The lane may not be wide enough for a car to overtake. i take primary in some duel carriage ways.

 

[gaz]

Why do you take primary on a dual carriageway?
I very very rarely cycle on dual carriageways, but I see no reason to take primary, since there will be no parked cars, but I'm guessing I'm missing some sort of obvious hazard? (It's late, i'm tired)

The lane may not be wide enough for a car to overtake. i take primary in some duel carriage ways.

 

[Crankarm]

What a shame to have to say to a newbie cyclist that they have to expect to get used to bullying from other road users.

The thing about 'primary' is that, if push comes to shove, it gives you somewhere to yield to - unlike if you're riding in the gutter....

WTF, great galloping fantasies .............. who mentioned riding in the gutter? You! I didn't.

Strange as pretty much all the riders in my club ride too close to the nearside gutter IMHO and any rider I see out on the road is invariably hugging the nearside line if there is one along the edge of the verge. I don't even have to pull out to as I pass them as if they are standing still . I don't think ..... that's riding in the gutter, do you?

No, I don't have to say to a newbie cyclist, I am telling Sam how it is based obviously on my many years of cycling experience. If you think it is not as I describe then please tell us and why. Would you advocate a touchy feely mustn't upset, cotton wool sort of approach for newbies then? I think Sam has a bit more intelligence, understanding and a thicker skin than you give him credit for judging by the way he handled the unpleasant incident he recounted.

The bottom line is there are pyshcos out there. In the last few years it has got worse. These pyschos won't think twice about bullying you with their car or if you react, screeching to a stop, backing up or jumping out. You want to try to avoid these types of situation at all costs which is stating the obvious but when you are cycling the adrenalin is pumping and things can escalate in a fraction of a second. The next thing your life is irrepairably changed forever. The rules of the Highway Hode and advice in Cyclecraft work fine for road users on both sides who are law abiding, but sticking to them too doggedly in the face of some one who plainly doesn't give a sh1t if you are on the road or not, is foolhardy IMHO. You are pretty vulnerable on a bike. No good feeling you have the moral highground and weight of the HC or Cyclecraft on your side if some moron is intent on running you off the road or running you down. You don't want to spend the rest of your life paralysed having been knocked down or killed. One is a long time dead. Just let them by. At least they are in front of you and not behind where it is harder to keep an eye on them.

Old Cyril who MOTs the car says "Just let them go....(pause).... they'll probably kill theirselves anyway, but at least they won't crash into you or take you with them. Silly beggars!" Wise words.

Ride happily, ride safely to ride another day.

 

[Crankarm]

What a shame to have to say to a newbie cyclist that they have to expect to get used to bullying from other road users.

The thing about 'primary' is that, if push comes to shove, it gives you somewhere to yield to - unlike if you're riding in the gutter....

WTF, great galloping fantasies .............. who mentioned riding in the gutter? You! I didn't.

Strange as pretty much all the riders in my club ride too close to the nearside gutter IMHO and any rider I see out on the road is invariably hugging the nearside line if there is one along the edge of the verge. I don't even have to pull out to as I pass them as if they are standing still . I don't think ..... that's riding in the gutter, do you?

No, I don't have to say to a newbie cyclist, I am telling Sam how it is based obviously on my many years of cycling experience. If you think it is not as I describe then please tell us and why. Would you advocate a touchy feely mustn't upset, cotton wool sort of approach for newbies then? I think Sam has a bit more intelligence, understanding and a thicker skin than you give him credit for judging by the way he handled the unpleasant incident he recounted.

The bottom line is there are pyshcos out there. In the last few years it has got worse. These pyschos won't think twice about bullying you with their car or if you react, screeching to a stop, backing up or jumping out. You want to try to avoid these types of situation at all costs which is stating the obvious but when you are cycling the adrenalin is pumping and things can escalate in a fraction of a second. The next thing your life is irrepairably changed forever. The rules of the Highway Hode and advice in Cyclecraft work fine for road users on both sides who are law abiding, but sticking to them too doggedly in the face of some one who plainly doesn't give a sh1t if you are on the road or not, is foolhardy IMHO. You are pretty vulnerable on a bike. No good feeling you have the moral highground and weight of the HC or Cyclecraft on your side if some moron is intent on running you off the road or running you down. You don't want to spend the rest of your life paralysed having been knocked down or killed. One is a long time dead. Just let them by. At least they are in front of you and not behind where it is harder to keep an eye on them.

Old Cyril who MOTs the car says "Just let them go....(pause).... they'll probably kill theirselves anyway, but at least they won't crash into you or take you with them. Silly beggars!" Wise words.

Ride happily, ride safely to ride another day.

 

[slowmotion]

Crankarm, that was good.

 

[slowmotion]

Crankarm, that was good.

 

[BentMikey]

...but also not related to the need to use primary in many situations in the face of most ordinary road users. There certainly is a point when it's wise to get away from the driver however you can, but the OP's situation sounds like one where primary is the right strategy.

 

[BentMikey]

...but also not related to the need to use primary in many situations in the face of most ordinary road users. There certainly is a point when it's wise to get away from the driver however you can, but the OP's situation sounds like one where primary is the right strategy.

 

[GrasB]

Why do you take primary on a dual carriageway?
I very very rarely cycle on dual carriageways, but I see no reason to take primary, since there will be no parked cars, but I'm guessing I'm missing some sort of obvious hazard? (It's late, i'm tired)

I refer to a previous post of mine in this thread.

if they can't pass you in primary they shouldn't be passing you in secondary!

It's your judgment to pull in & let someone squeeze passed, dangerously, if you feel that is the safer option but generally on most dual carriage ways you consider cycling along for reasonable distances this isn't the case. I'm not talking about cycling along short length of a major A road to cross it/get to the village which only has one public right of way as access, via that main road.

 

[GrasB]

Why do you take primary on a dual carriageway?
I very very rarely cycle on dual carriageways, but I see no reason to take primary, since there will be no parked cars, but I'm guessing I'm missing some sort of obvious hazard? (It's late, i'm tired)

I refer to a previous post of mine in this thread.

if they can't pass you in primary they shouldn't be passing you in secondary!

It's your judgment to pull in & let someone squeeze passed, dangerously, if you feel that is the safer option but generally on most dual carriage ways you consider cycling along for reasonable distances this isn't the case. I'm not talking about cycling along short length of a major A road to cross it/get to the village which only has one public right of way as access, via that main road.

 

[Lurker]

WTF, great galloping fantasies .............. who mentioned riding in the gutter? You! I didn't.

Correct - merely to make the point that riding in primary gives maximum amount of 'bailout' space, should that be needed. Nobody had made this point in the earlier part of the discussion. It also seemed worth emphasising this benefit of 'primary' by highlighting the fact that, in contrast, riding in the gutter provides no 'bailout' space - on the carriageway, at least. This wasn't meant as a personal dig at anyone.

No, I don't have to say to a newbie cyclist, I am telling Sam how it is based obviously on my many years of cycling experience. If you think it is not as I describe then please tell us and why. Would you advocate a touchy feely mustn't upset, cotton wool sort of approach for newbies then?

I think it's helpful to do what you've done and I agree that Sam handled the situation well. I'm merely making the point that it's a shame that, in this country at this time, behaviour on our roads is such that cyclists must expect some abuse simply for being on the road on a bicycle. As you go on to say, it hasn't always been as it is now. That raises the questions of how we've got to where we are, and what we can do to improve things.

 

[Lurker]

WTF, great galloping fantasies .............. who mentioned riding in the gutter? You! I didn't.

Correct - merely to make the point that riding in primary gives maximum amount of 'bailout' space, should that be needed. Nobody had made this point in the earlier part of the discussion. It also seemed worth emphasising this benefit of 'primary' by highlighting the fact that, in contrast, riding in the gutter provides no 'bailout' space - on the carriageway, at least. This wasn't meant as a personal dig at anyone.

No, I don't have to say to a newbie cyclist, I am telling Sam how it is based obviously on my many years of cycling experience. If you think it is not as I describe then please tell us and why. Would you advocate a touchy feely mustn't upset, cotton wool sort of approach for newbies then?

I think it's helpful to do what you've done and I agree that Sam handled the situation well. I'm merely making the point that it's a shame that, in this country at this time, behaviour on our roads is such that cyclists must expect some abuse simply for being on the road on a bicycle. As you go on to say, it hasn't always been as it is now. That raises the questions of how we've got to where we are, and what we can do to improve things.

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

One thing is clear (probably only one thing) to all.

Even cyclists cannot agree over which situations require primary.

Are we thus being too harsh on the non-cycling majority who can't grasp what we can't even agree upon?

What isn't too much to ask for is patience however. Putting my car-driver hat on for a moment, we are bombarded with "SPEED KILLS" messages, speed cameras lurk to catch us, sometimes at points such as at the bottom of a dip where speed may just creep up, and do give the impression of a revenue-raiser rather than a safety campaign (never had a single speeding ticket in 18 years by the way so not sour grapes).

I think the whole thing is aimed at the wrong issue. Car drivers will debate over "safe speeding" vs "unsafe speeding"

The real issue isn't "speed kills" but "IMPATIENCE KILLS" Be that the cyclist who RLJs his way under a truck or the car that passes too close.

For me, taking primary is a case of minimising risk from impatient road users who don't MEAN to squash you, they just made a bad call in their stressed haste. I'd rather be called a pig to a dog than be a pancake.