My observations driving through London last night

[Tynan]

with the 2% being almost completely preventable

yes to in the front but that's not to say there isn;t time to check behind when necessary

 

[dellzeqq]

thirtyfive years ago I'd have been the only one going round the Elephant and Castle. It was lonely. Now there are zillions of us. I'm sure I'm at less risk than I was then, but, to be honest, I don't really think about the risk. I think about the company. Which is terrific.

Tynan - do you remember the time we met at Clapham Common? Occasionally a switch flicks, and that was a switch-flicking moment. It seemed so natural that cyclists should meet and chat on one of London's main roads in the middle of the night. And yet, a few years before, it would have felt completely odd.

 

[GrasB]

That's interesting. My commute is pretty much all rural A road, between Gloucester and Ross on Wye. While I certainly have a look behind me before making any big manoevres, I'd say I tend to use my hearing far more than I do in an urban environment. Or at least I find it more useful than in town, since any traffic behind me is not masked by a high level of general traffic noise all around.

I also use my hearing, in some ways depend on it, quite heavily on rural roads. It's not that I don't visually check, I do often, it's that 9 times out of 10 I can hear someone driving like a nutter a long time before I have the line of sight to see them.

 

[Tynan]

how could I forget del

Your knowledge of every single tiny back road in the area was most impressive and welcome

Likewise, I use to ride from Tottenham to Wimbledon every day about 20 years ago, right through London, and yes via the old Elephant and Castle roundabout, bikes were certainly few and far between in them days

 

[Red Light]

with the 2% being almost completely preventable

Depends on how many were what the Americans call Single Witness Suicide Swerves where the driver swears he was just driving along when the cyclist suddenly swerved in front of him.

yes to in the front but that's not to say there isn;t time to check behind when necessary

Depends on the traffic but priority has to go to the front and accepting missing something unlikely from the rear in favour of not missing something likely from the front. A glance over the shoulder takes quite a few seconds away from observing what is going on in front.

 

[BentMikey]

I wonder why in the motorcycle world that the look over the shoulder is called the LIFE SAVER! It was banged into me whilst learning and on every consecutive advanced lesson afterwards.

+1

I feel quite disturbed by those who feel hearing is enough to keep them safe. For goodness sake look people, look every time before you manoeuvre, before you pass junctions, etc. Drivers *hate* it when we don't show awareness and check and signal, and understandably so, because we do too.

So many cyclists on here curse motorists for not looking when they change lanes, using indicators as "make me a space". That would make us hypocrites, yes?

 

[Red Light]

+1

I feel quite disturbed by those who feel hearing is enough to keep them safe. For goodness sake look people, look every time before you manoeuvre, before you pass junctions, etc. Drivers *hate* it when we don't show awareness and check and signal, and understandably so, because we do too.

Its not that, its making sure your attention is on where the danger is coming from and in LONDON, that is usually what is going on in front, not what is happening behind. Looking behind is a good idea when there's little going on in front but if you are sweeping round Trafalgar Square with the traffic you need to keep you eye on the vehicles in front and let those behind look after themselves. The drivers are all doing exactly the same themselves, I can guarantee you.

You can slavishly look behind if you wish irrespective of what is actually happening because that is what has been drummed into you. I would rather do what is appropriate to the range of risks around me and a lot of the time in London that is not what is going on behind.

 

[danphoto]

Cyclists who hug the kerb don't get space.

So, so true ...

I also think it's worth bearing in mind as regular city cyclists, lots of drivers may not really know where they are, and their attention is taken up with trying to work out where to go as much as it is with observation.

And so's that. I've had to drive in and across central London more times than I care to think about, and there are numerous junctions where you can absolutely predict the sudden signal-less lane changes, even when there's no road works to add to the fun for the easily confused.

Another factor is that many people driving in London might never have met an ASL before and have no idea what if anything it's about ...

 

[BentMikey]

Its not that, its making sure your attention is on where the danger is coming from and in LONDON, that is usually what is going on in front, not what is happening behind. Looking behind is a good idea when there's little going on in front but if you are sweeping round Trafalgar Square with the traffic you need to keep you eye on the vehicles in front and let those behind look after themselves. The drivers are all doing exactly the same themselves, I can guarantee you.

You can slavishly look behind if you wish irrespective of what is actually happening because that is what has been drummed into you. I would rather do what is appropriate to the range of risks around me and a lot of the time in London that is not what is going on behind.

It's about timing your looks behind. Are you really seriously suggesting my position is to keep looking behind despite when it's busy and things up ahead are requiring more attention? That would be a straw man, and nothing like the reality of good riding. If you haven't got time to look behind you a lot of the time, then perhaps you're riding too fast for the conditions? As for car drivers not doing this, that makes them a perfect example for you to copy, yes? The cager effect means that they care a lot less about a bump than I do.

And most of my commuting is in London, from out in the rural area through surburbia and into the busy centre. I expect I have plenty of experience to judge what you are saying. I suggest listening to the motorcyclists on here, and the emphasis on lifesavers, because if you do these, one day they will. I get to look back every three to five seconds on average, and without compromising my forward observation. Why can't you do this?

 

[Bodhbh]

It's pretty mental. I've cycled occasionally thru london several years now, normally just getting between the rails stations. I thought it was hectic, but I never cycled in morning rush hour till the other week - like shoals of herring.

 

[Tynan]

I loathe the cyclists that pull out to pass another rider without looking behind first, there's a lot if it about lately

 

[subaqua]

I loathe the cyclists that pull out to pass another rider without looking behind first, there's a lot if it about lately

I hate it when they don't look and then get stroppy because you gave a quick ding on the bell to warn them of your presence.

 

[aembleton]

I get to look back every three to five seconds on average, and without compromising my forward observation. Why can't you do this?

I regularly look behind me, but not that often! I'm impressed that you can keep turning your head like that. It must get tiring.

I tend to check when I've stopped, near junctions, passing parked cars and at certain pinch points that I know cars like to make dangerous overtakes.

 

[BentMikey]

Ah, well I'm cheating on the recumbent with mirrors. On the current bike I'm pretty lucky with their positioning, they're even closer to my line of sight looking ahead than in any car I've driven, so it's really easy to see what's happening behind. I'm not quite as good at looking back on the upright, and I really notice just how much information I'm losing out on. On the other hand, I have to make an effort on the bent to communicate with drivers, because the mirrors mean you lose out on looking back at drivers that you get on an upright. It's not hard to compensate for this with signalling pointing out hazards, and thanking the drivers, but it does also show how useful looking back at them is.

If you see bbborp's videos, you'll notice just how good at looking behind Ben is on an upright.

 

[Amanda P]

If you see bbborp's videos, you'll notice just how good at looking behind Ben is on an upright.

... I had to read that sentence two or three times before I was sure you'd got it right...