New Coast to Coast route - The Way of the Roses

[marinyork]

Off-road routes can be created where no route existed before - for example, the Mary Towneley Loop. Road routes are a different kettle of fish though, aren't they? They necessarily go along public roads so you could cobble together any sort of route and call it what you like. See PaulB's post above, for instance. There is no such thing as a 'new' road route unless someone builds new roads for it!

Trivially. This route is all part of existing signed NCN that I outlined above though. If there hadn't been any existing signs on fairly big chunks of the route then that'd be fair enough it's not really the case though is it. It's fairly dishonest in that respect.

 

[ColinJ]

Trivially. This route is all part of existing signed NCN that I outlined above though. If there hadn't been any existing signs on fairly big chunks of the route then that'd be fair enough it's not really the case though is it. It's fairly dishonest in that respect.

It's a bit like a government re-announcing projects, savings, (whatever) that they had already announced.

Still, if it gets people out on their bikes to do an interesting ride, that has to be a good thing.

 

[marinyork]

By the way I find the sleight of hand most annoying because in the area where this goes the same bits are still coming soon if you like after many years and no sign of them ever becoming NCN (blue dotted bits).

Further to that I'm very familiar with bits of the route and I somehow doubt sustrans have deigned to spend any more money sign posting the bits that could do with clarifying which is a shame. By all means popularise a route, but be honest and don't call it a new route and actually bother to sort out issues from before. I'm sure it will get some people out on the bike, as the middle bits of that route are quite pleasant but equally doing the coming soon bits might do that and these routes still have labelling issues.

 

[400bhp]

At talk of a new route I was quite interested in this and I had a look at the map in detail and someone correct me if I'm wrong but there's not 'new' bits of route at all it's just propaganda about existing routes that have been there for some considerable time. It is just Route 69 to Settle + Route 68 to Winterburn + Route 688 to just outside York + Route 65 in York + Route 66 to the Wolds + Route 1 to Bridlington. All this can be seen very clearly on the opencyclemap.

So what.

Very few cycle routes are new if you wanted to be anal about it. They have all existed before, be that roads or track.

if it gets people on the bike then its a good thing.

 

[ufkacbln]

Depends how you look at this....

The Sustrans "Coast and Castles" is muchthe same as the"New Rider of teh Open Road" route of the 80's

There is no claim that these are new routes, the new part is the link between the various parts to make a coherent route, or a theme. No mystery or conspiracy.There are hundereds of these . The Isle of Wight Randonnee, The Gridiron, any Audax route.

In the same way, long distance walking routes are merely linking the present footpaths - was Wainwrights "Coast to Coast" a con for the same reasons?

The trick is to link and promote the coherent route and hence get more tyres on those roads.

 

[Fiona N]

I've done bits of the Cumbria Cycle Route (round the edge of the county, can't remember the number offhand) but in places, especially in the north and northeast sections, it intersects with so many other routes that it gets confusing with half a dozen numbered blue plaques at the intersections (I exaggerate, but only slightly). It's even worse if you get to an intersection and 'your' route isn't mentioned - doubt creeps in that you've missed a turning etc. The CC route was there first in most instances so it might be more useful to other routes to say explicitly 'follow route X until you get to place A then follow signs for route Y...'.

 

[marinyork]

So what.

Very few cycle routes are new if you wanted to be anal about it. They have all existed before, be that roads or track.

if it gets people on the bike then its a good thing.

Nope. Quite a few 'new routes' have some kind of work done to them. Bits of this route have severe problems that haven't been addressed.

 

[marinyork]

Depends how you look at this....

The Sustrans "Coast and Castles" is muchthe same as the"New Rider of teh Open Road" route of the 80's

There is no claim that these are new routes, the new part is the link between the various parts to make a coherent route, or a theme. No mystery or conspiracy.There are hundereds of these . The Isle of Wight Randonnee, The Gridiron, any Audax route.

In the same way, long distance walking routes are merely linking the present footpaths - was Wainwrights "Coast to Coast" a con for the same reasons?

The trick is to link and promote the coherent route and hence get more tyres on those roads.

I've never seen an audax route with signs on it. You're making a completely false comparison. Long distance walking routes is a more reasonable comparison but are labelled to a higher quality and less variable and fewer problems. There's no political angle from them though.

If you'd read my previous posts you'd have seen that if they want to promote the roads there's a lot of blue dotted stuff nearby to the existing routes to promote by making them NCN. I think they'd have promoted the bit of the world even more had they got round to doing it (they have been blue dots for years).

As it is being claimed as a new route, I'd hope there would have been some work done to improve the route, sadly there doesn't seem to be any evidence they have.

 

[ColinJ]

I prefer my system...

I have seamless OS Landranger mapping for the entire UK on my PC. I use that (plus Google) to work out what places I want to visit and plot the quietest and most interesting-looking route I can to get to them. I upload the route data to my Garmin Etrex GPS. so I don't care about route signage - I don't need it! 

I don't worry about whether anybody else has ever created 'a route' there before.

Like PaulB - I have plotted my own coast-to-coast route, mine from Scarborough via the NY Moors, Dales, and Forest of Bowland to Blackpool. Scarborough and Blackpool have been chosen because I can get to Scarborough and back from Blackpool by train, and the countryside in between is fantastic! It is 159 miles in length and includes about 10,000 ft of climbing, some of it very steep. A mid-summer ride for the very fit I reckon!

 

[marinyork]

A very fit one although some fast roads at the scarborough end.

 

[PaulB]

Like PaulB - I have plotted my own coast-to-coast route,

Well I plotted mine in order to spend the least amount of time in Yorkshire*. That's why I plotted north up through the NE rather than sticking to Yorkshire itself**.













* Not really; there are parts of Yorkshire I find to be amongst the finest in Christendom but you know me, I love to revert to stereotype!

** Not really; I went that way as it promised the least hilly route! And delivered it!

 

[ColinJ]

... some fast roads at the scarborough end.

There aren't on my route! Out of the 159 miles total, there are less than 3 miles of A-roads altogether...

I avoided every A-road along the way that I could. The route from Scarborough goes through Scalby then for a meander through Dalby Forest. I bent the route here and there to go through places I like and places I haven't seen yet that I want to. Brimham Rocks, for example. Fountains Abbey is very close to the route so if somebody was going to take 2 days to do it, a little diversion to have a look round there would definitely be in order. I want to do it in one day though so I won't have much time for sightseeing. I'll be struggling to make it between the first train to Scarborough and the last train from Blackpool but I suppose that I could I stop overnight in Scarborough and set off after an early breakfast to give myself plenty of time.

 

[marinyork]

I think I'd be setting off between 6am and 7:30am to do that. You haven't seen Brimham Rocks? I like Pately Bridge and Brimham Rocks very much for some reason I'm not sure of. The Way of the Roses (route 688) goes past both.

 

[ColinJ]

I think I'd be setting off between 6am and 7:30am to do that. 

I was thinking the same thing about the start time and there is no way to get there by train from here at that time in the morning. I suppose if there was a spell of nice mid-summer weather, I could get the last train there the night before and kip on a patch of grass somewhere for a few hours to save the cost of a B&B.

You haven't seen Brimham Rocks? I like Pately Bridge and Brimham Rocks very much for some reason I'm not sure of. The Way of the Roses (route 688) goes past both.

I've been through Pateley Bridge twice. Once on a 200km ride from Hebden Bridge, and once on a 200 km audax ride from York. I saw a sign for the rocks but I don't think we went up there (it's all a bit of a blur because I was pretty tired on both rides). I thought that Pateley Bridge would be worth a longer visit some time.  

 

[ufkacbln]

I've never seen an audax route with signs on it. You're making a completely false comparison. [/url]

My statement is that these are named routes made up from a a variety of other routes - I never claimed they were signposted

Long distance walking routes is a more reasonable comparison but are labelled to a higher quality and less variable and fewer problems. There's no political angle from them though.

That is a dream, there are as many problems with footpaths, illegal obstructions, detours, erosion and a thousand other issues that as with teh cycle network is down to the local councils to sort. There is also a massive political angle with access and right to roam!

If you'd read my previous posts you'd have seen that if they want to promote the roads there's a lot of blue dotted stuff nearby to the existing routes to promote by making them NCN. I think they'd have promoted the bit of the world even more had they got round to doing it (they have been blue dots for years).[/url]

This is a simple joining of existing routes to a themed route, the idea is to promote the whole and not the individual pieces.

As it is being claimed as a new route, I'd hope there would have been some work done to improve the route, sadly there doesn't seem to be any evidence they have.

It is a new route in the context used, in the same way as the Coast to Coast was a new route, or the Pennine Way, etc.

As to improvements they are on the way, unfortunately as many don't understand this is a local Council responsibility... write to the local councils as you would with a footpath!