New Defender

I saw my first one today
It was on the forecourt of Guy Salmon - Wakefield (A61 Barnsley Road) in Sandal

A big beastie, but far too flash

Doubtless it will sell as a lifestyle vehicle, but unless more basic versions will come later, with a partial 'ladder' chassis, LR seem to be kissing goodbye to traditional customers

This one was on 20" wheels, but at least they have a better sidewall than the usual 'rubber-bands' fitted to Range Rovers
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neil_merseyside

Über Member
Location
Wirral
Looks like a new mini (or a Move?) that's had an airline up its jacksie, just shout taxi when one goes past - they love it :whistle:
 

SGG on a bike

Well-Known Member
Location
Lowestoft
I was a die hard Land Rover man for many years, but sadly, they've lost their way from being rugged utilitarian vehicles and as you say, turned into lifestyle vehicles. Now, I think they're far too expensive for what they are and not really any better for it. For a utilitarian vehicle, there are plenty of very reliable Japanese trucks that are perfectly capable enough off road to do what the Landies of old did. Most don't get used to their full capability and just get used on the odd farm track/byway. I don't know what the towing capacity and payload is on the new Landie, but I strongly suspect it won't be 3 tonnes with a tonne in the back and a train weight of almost 6 tonnes.

As a Lifestyle 4x4, it's ok, but there are other, better built options that probably cost less and are likely to be more reliable. too much bling for my taste these days though. I'd be inclined to save a bucket load of money and go for a Suzuki Jimny (they're much better than you might think) :smile:
 

SGG on a bike

Well-Known Member
Location
Lowestoft
I'm really not sure who would be driving them. People who aspire to owning a Range Rover but can't afford one might be a target for LR. "Traditional" owners who actually need a utilitarian 4x4 probably won't as other more suitable options are available and affordable. People who want a "blingy" 4x4 may not be swayed from their lifted, body kitted, mini monster truck, Ford Rangers which seem to be the weapon of choice currently. Eco warriors won't go anywhere near them, understandably, so I guess that leaves the school run brigade if you can get them out of their RR Evoques.

I do really hope they make a success of it and that they are reliable, but LR's track record hasn't been great since the mid 90s with the introduction of the P38 RR and its well documented air suspension issues.
 

Drago

Flouncing Nobber
All the hard core 4x4 boys I know are holding out for the Ineos Grenadier. A proper workhorse, live axles, British built. The Ineos engineers were quite disdainful of the new Defender as being a mere SUV.

Aside from all that, the old Defender was a tough old boot you could keep going through endless bodgery. The new one will be fit for nothing but the bin in 15 years of the contemporary LR products are anything to go by.
 

MarkF

Legendary Member
Location
Yorkshire
Another manufacturer losing the plot and it's USP at the same time, Jeep blew theirs years ago. I am certain there is still a large "Marlboro man" market for no-nonsense trucks that look better with a few scratches and dings. I could hardly give my 4L Cherokee away 6 years ago, today I'd struggle to afford to buy it back! It's a blah blob and if I'd seen it badgeless I'd have guessed "Kia".
 
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Fab Foodie

hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
Hopefully with new thinking post CV19, a global recession and the true shock of climate change upon us such needless shitboxes will rapidly become extinct....
 
Location
Kent Coast
The old, separate chassis with body bolted on top, Land rovers were built for work. They were capable of being converted from hard tops to soft tops to pickup trucks, and could even have stuff bolted through the rear floor into the chassis.
None of these things can be done to the new Defender. It's too expensive and too posh to be used as a working vehicle. It doesn't have a separate chassis, which Land Rover seem to think is a good thing. I believe a "working" model will be produced eventually, but I can't see that it will be adaptable enough for use as a working vehicle in a wide variety of applications.
I will be interested to see the new Ineos, one of these days.....
 

figbat

Slippery scientist
My wife had a go in one a bit before lockdown, at a Land Rover offroad experience. Now, she’s no offroad enthusiast but she was pretty impressed with it. Not impressed enough to replace the XC60 with one, mind.

I have to say, I quite like it. I’m not a die-hard Defenderati and I realise the new one is for a different clientele, but I’d at least like a good look at one.
 

Drago

Flouncing Nobber
will be interested to see the new Ineos, one of these days.....
Ineos are busy building the factory as we speak, due for 2021 production to start. Their website doesn't show a complete vehicle, but does have videos talking you through most of the main items. They're using BMW powertrains and Magna Steyr 4x4 systems, so they're liable to be every bit as capable as the Landy but wont break every time the driver coughs.

https://ineosgrenadier.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwoPL2BRDxARIsAEMm9y-uAqLSQXoj2vjGM9V8EcVADqMj38J8CRyPTvi3gdGYy0ovjOwpA7kaAmchEALw_wcB

In fact, I'm really looking forward to its arrival. JLR have been too quick to blame everything and everyone for their woes of late, and if the Grenadier givers them a good kicking as seems possible - maybe even likely - it'll be more proof that they've simply not had their eye on the ball for over a decade. Ineos cash reserves and financial might dwarfs JRL, who are being kept on a tight budget by Tata, so my fingers are crossed that they can do it.

Volvo went from strength to strength when unleashed from their Ford paymasters, but JLR have floundered and made excuses, and on the rare occasion they do make a product that people want to buy (like the Evoque, fo some reason) they assemble it with Pritt Stik and saddle it with a rough and wheezy Ingenium engine instead of buying in a power unit from someone who actually knows that they're doing.
 
I was a die hard Land Rover man for many years, but sadly, they've lost their way from being rugged utilitarian vehicles and as you say, turned into lifestyle vehicles.
I'm with you, I started with a 2A Light-Weight, had 90s (including a genuine factory V8 CSW, not a transplant), 110Tdi's
My last 110 being a 'Heritage', with the Td5 (preceded by a Discovery 300Tdi)

Scaley-Gate
Jackson Bridge

Yes, that was standard suspension
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Ramsden Lane, with Holmfirth in the background
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Now, I think they're far too expensive for what they are and not really any better for it. For a utilitarian vehicle, there are plenty of very reliable Japanese trucks that are perfectly capable enough off road to do what the Landies of old did. Most don't get used to their full capability and just get used on the odd farm track/byway.
Circa £59,000 for the one pictured (...'from'...!!!)

I don't know what the towing capacity and payload is on the new Landie, but I strongly suspect it won't be 3 tonnes with a tonne in the back and a train weight of almost 6 tonnes.
It was (for Tdi/Td5) 3.5 ton on over-run brakes (not sure about the 'Puma' engines, but suspect the same)
If Special Vehicles division had fitted the complimentary air-brake system, they were allowed 4 tons
A rare conversion, but one that used to be seen a lot at race-courses
Pontefract Race-Course, 2007
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Note air-tank under rear cross-member
Dixon-Bates produced the 'mini' 5th wheel

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As a Lifestyle 4x4, it's ok, but there are other, better built options that probably cost less and are likely to be more reliable. too much bling for my taste these days though. I'd be inclined to save a bucket load of money and go for a Suzuki Jimny (they're much better than you might think) :smile:
Yes, the Jimny is very capable
 
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