New mobile phone laws

[spen666]

I think that's a fair point. Using a mobile with driving is obviously dangerous in that it distracts attention fro the job in hand. But unfortunately lots of other things go on in cars that are also distracting. Fiddling with the radio, scrolling through the contacts on hands free, chatting with a passenger, unwrapping a sweet. Hands free calls are distracting and even the sat nav is too

My take on this is that we, as a society, can push phone use while driving into the "socially unacceptable" area that drink driving is now in. But I think that there will be technological "sticks" as well. It can't be that hard, for example, to have something built into the car and the smartphone OS that will only allow voice activated commands whilst in the car. I get lots of messages while driving that are work related. These can be urgent so I have to pull over, read the message, reply and then drive off. Presumably a system could read out the message I've received (from whatever messaging app I have on my phone) and I can voice instruct it to reply?? I know that not having any voice control would be better than this, but living in the real world this sounds like a reasonable solution

How is this technology going to distinguish between a passenger and a driver?

 

[nickyboy]

How is this technology going to distinguish between a passenger and a driver?

It isn't and that's why it works.

If you have technology to block all mobile use in a car then passengers can't use devices. Work arounds will come onto the market and then drivers will use them too. Defeats the objective

But if you have some technology that makes all mobiles in a car voice activated only, passengers can still use their phones. Drivers can use their phones too. No major incentive to find a work around

 

[Globalti]

You can drive a car without concentrating and you can often steer and brake your way out of trouble once you've spotted the hazard but having once driven a truck with air brakes I can tell you that you can't afford to allow your attention to drift for one minute; hit the brakes in panic and all four wheels will lock and you have much less space to swerve. Consequently driving a truck was by far the most exhausting job I've ever done in my life; you have to concentrate hard, read the road far further ahead and actually take heed of triangular warning signs.

 

[nickyboy]

The 'being distracted by eating a sandwich, etc' point is not really part of the same discussion here, or shouldn't be, because the problem with using a mobile phone and driving at the same time concerns the dilution of the cognitive resources that a driver has available in order to drive safely. Reaching for a cup of coffee takes very little cognitive resource, whereas having a conversation (and with a person who is not sharing the same moment-to-moment experience with you, in the way a passenger is, which is a crucial point) demands a high amount of cognitive resource - and depletes the amount available to deal with anything happening suddenly on the road. There is pretty much a spectrum of cognitive demand for these tasks, with eating a sandwich at one end and sending a complex text message at the other.

Research into the complexity and pitfalls of human divided attention has a very long and distinguished history, beginning with Donald Broadbent's classic work with air traffic controllers. It's all out there to be googled and read up on, and it's fascinating.

I should add perhaps that people think driving takes very little cognitive resources, because they do it 'automatically' and it has become 'overlearned' for them, but of course this is not true at all, as anyone involved in a sudden collision can attest.

You're right of course in that there is a spectrum of attention required for different activities in a car. I would suggest that there are to key areas;

1) Soaking up your cognitive resource so, regardless of whether you have eyes on the road, you aren't focusing on hazards etc in the normal way

2) Things that take your eyes off the road

So a hands free call is a problem for 1 but not 2. But fiddling with a sweet wrapper, or messing with the radio or whatever is just as dangerous if not more so as it is 2 not 1. I'm not saying either is more dangerous than the other but I don't think we can just consider mental distraction

 

[Globalti]

Driving without concentrating is, sadly, a symptom of it not being regarded as a valuable skill or as a privilege that we could easily lose.

Therein lies the problem. Driving has become under-valued by society and most people are too casual about the act of driving a motor vehicle. Last night at the petrol station our ears were suddenly assaulted by noise as an economy hatch pulled in, loud music blaring through open windows and three young occupants larking around excitedly. They were in convoy with two other similar cars also full of excited young people.

 

[ianrauk]

Well it has made zero difference, of which we knew. On this mornings commute. 4 car drivers in a row all using phones.

 

[Jody]

Here's a thought, just to swim briefly against the stream of this thread: How many accidents were caused before cellphones by distracted drivers reading road atlases, eating sandwiches, reaching for a coffee (holders helpfully supplied by the car manufacturer), shaving, putting on makeup or even reading the newspaper?

I hope the law also starts to penalise touch screens in cars. Hated my last car as almost everything was touch screen so to adjust the heater, change the radio channel etc you had to take your eyes off the road for a considerable length of time. To me its not the act of holding a phone its the interaction with it thats the problem.

How is this technology going to distinguish between a passenger and a driver?

Directional displays. The driver sees a blank screen and the passanger sees the display.

 

[jefmcg]

Direct her up a dark tunnel, did you?

To my shame, I gave her direction to Marble Arch. She seemed so sad and lost.

If she'd had a sat nav instead, she'd have probably been trying to type something into it when she hit you

No, she may have hit someone in Staines (or wherever) when she was configuring her destination after she set off, but by the time she got to to Kensington she'd have been happily following the voice and listening to The Today Show. Navigating by map is a lot more distracting than navigating by SatNav.

 

[jefmcg]

You're right of course in that there is a spectrum of attention required for different activities in a car. I would suggest that there are to key areas;

1) Soaking up your cognitive resource so, regardless of whether you have eyes on the road, you aren't focusing on hazards etc in the normal way

2) Things that take your eyes off the road

So a hands free call is a problem for 1 but not 2. But fiddling with a sweet wrapper, or messing with the radio or whatever is just as dangerous if not more so as it is 2 not 1. I'm not saying either is more dangerous than the other but I don't think we can just consider mental distraction

You've missed one.

3) Things that demand your attention, like toddlers and mobile phones. Sweets never beep and make you wonder if that means that Trump has just retweeted you, or (joy!) someone has liked the picture of you skiing that you posted at breakfast.

 

[smiler1207]

I think the main problem is that a lot of people are "addicted" to their mobile phones and cant seem to be able to leave them alone. Not sure I have seen many people addicted to eating sandwiches or adjusting the volume on the stereo.

Texting, messaging, social media requires to look at your phone thus taking your eyes off the road, making it much more of a danger than speaking to someone.

 

[jefmcg]

Presumably a system could read out the message I've received (from whatever messaging app I have on my phone) and I can voice instruct it to reply??

Stuff like this already exists. I use Utter. It has a pretty full range of voice commands, and will read all your notifications if you tell it to "Read Notifications". That, by the way is not necessarily a good idea, so if you install it, make sure you got to Settings->Advanced->Exclude Notifications to turn it off for most apps. Turns out some apps send notifications every few seconds. Drives your crazy the first few times you use it.

(it's open source and last version was 2014, but it works well and development is still on going)

 

[Dan B]

You've missed one.

3) Things that demand your attention, like toddlers and mobile phones. Sweets never beep and make you wonder if that means that Trump has just retweeted you, or (joy!) someone has liked the picture of you skiing that you posted at breakfast.

I would have viewed that as a special (more extreme) case of the first class: grabbing your attention means diverting your cognitive resource. The difference is not in the thing being demanded but in the unpredictability of that demand.

 

[Globalti]

GtiJunior, in common with his 17 year old pals, seems to be absolutely addicted to social media but I don't say anything because I hope and believe that one day he will realise what a time-waster it all is and begin talking to people face to face instead. I just hope this conversion happens before he starts driving.

 

[mjr]

Presumably a system could read out the message I've received (from whatever messaging app I have on my phone) and I can voice instruct it to reply?? I know that not having any voice control would be better than this, but living in the real world this sounds like a reasonable solution

The Voice Notify app on Android reads out any messages that arrive while I drive (or cycle, actually). I regard that as on the same level as radio bulletins - if something is happening that needs too much attention to let me listen to it, I ignore it like I would the radio, but I can pull over and unlock the screen if I want to know what it said (and thanks to the wonders of txtspk, I sometimes have to anyway!). I don't have voice control configured to let me reply because I don't think that's safe enough and I pull over if I need to reply. I have Voice Notify set to ignore most apps because any messages that might change my destination will arrive by SMS or one other particular app.

1) Soaking up your cognitive resource so, regardless of whether you have eyes on the road, you aren't focusing on hazards etc in the normal way

2) Things that take your eyes off the road

So a hands free call is a problem for 1 but not 2. But fiddling with a sweet wrapper, or messing with the radio or whatever is just as dangerous if not more so as it is 2 not 1. I'm not saying either is more dangerous than the other but I don't think we can just consider mental distraction

I don't have to look at sweets to unwrap them and fortunately my radio and heater controls are still physical, so I don't look at those either. I agree with the earlier comments that the increasing use of touchscreens for minor controls seems a dangerous backwards step - I find multifunction dashboard menu buttons confusing/distracting enough!

 

[SpokeyDokey]

There is a bit here (scroll down) re: cyclists using mobile phones whilst riding:

https://www.lawontheweb.co.uk/personal/mobile-phones