New offences for cyclists/cycling

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Dogtrousers

Lefty tighty. Get it righty.
  • Amber pedal reflectors (front and rear of each pedal, unless bike type makes this impractical such as clipless MTB pedals)
Totally different subject but I think they've pulled this "unless" clause out of thin air. I don't think there is any exemption for SPDs, although @Ming the Merciless mentioned something about saddle height. It's just another part of the patchwork of outdated regulations that are almost entirely ignored by manufacturers and consumers alike.
 
Also not a requirement on bikes originally built pre 1985 etc.

I think it’s just another point that the lighting regulations for bikes need overhaul. Both lighting and reflector requirements.

It does all seem to be a bit of a mess in term of bike and the required equipment

Lights are the obvious thing - and making it necessary to have lights that comply with a legal code would make sense
and reflector rules that make sense and bikes can comply with in terms of pedals

and bells - yes I know - but if I remember rightly a bike has to be sold with a bell on it
but fi you take it off as you leave the shop and lob it into the bin then that is fine

but, of course, if it is not enforceable AND enforced then it is just a waste of ones and zeroes on a computer disc
 

Dogtrousers

Lefty tighty. Get it righty.
It does all seem to be a bit of a mess in term of bike and the required equipment

Lights are the obvious thing - and making it necessary to have lights that comply with a legal code would make sense
and reflector rules that make sense and bikes can comply with in terms of pedals

and bells - yes I know - but if I remember rightly a bike has to be sold with a bell on it
but fi you take it off as you leave the shop and lob it into the bin then that is fine

but, of course, if it is not enforceable AND enforced then it is just a waste of ones and zeroes on a computer disc

The problem is that the cat is out of the bag. It's much easier to relax (or just ignore) regulation than it is to tighten it.

Just look at illegal e-bikes, they are a way bigger problem than illegal lights (which many of us have and are perfectly happy with).
 

TC99

Active Member
What do you doubt? That you could be convicted of speeding on the basis of a police speed gun or camera? Do you think that not having a speedo is some kind of magic get-out clause?

As a matter of fact I do have evidence of a conviction under these circumstances.

The world's first speeding ticket went to Walter Arnold who drove a horseless carriage at 8mph through Paddock Wood, Kent on 28 January 1896. https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Walter-Arnold-Worlds-First-Speeding-Ticket/ He was fined 1 shilling for speeding.

The first motor car speedometer was introduced in 1901 https://www.motorhowto.com/how-did-old-cars-measure-speed/

So Mr Arnold was convicted of speeding some 5 years before the invention of the car speedometer. I think that counts :smile:

In fact, speedometers in cars weren't mandatory in the UK until 1937, two years after the introduction of 30mph limits in urban areas. https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-safety-the-highway-code-and-the-driving-test

Now I've never been done for speeding, so I could be wrong, but I think pretty much all speeding convictions are done on the basis of external measuring equipment, and no reference is made to the car's speedo.

Of course, if you want a helping hand in ensuring that you stay within the speed limit you are free to fit a speedo to your bike. Just as you should have a speedo in your car if you want it to pass its MoT. But not having one won't save you from a ticket if there is evidence that you were speeding.

You are wrong on every level.
"
Rule 123 of the Highway Code includes a table that sets out the speed limits for various types of vehicles on different categories of road. The table does not include bicycles. So no, cyclists in the UK are not legally required to adhere to the same speed limits as motorists.

Cyclists who breach the speed limit may not be prosecuted for a speeding offence but they can, however, be prosecuted for “cycling furiously” or “wanton and furious cycling.”"
 

Dogtrousers

Lefty tighty. Get it righty.
You are wrong on every level.
"
Rule 123 of the Highway Code includes a table that sets out the speed limits for various types of vehicles on different categories of road. The table does not include bicycles. So no, cyclists in the UK are not legally required to adhere to the same speed limits as motorists.

Cyclists who breach the speed limit may not be prosecuted for a speeding offence but they can, however, be prosecuted for “cycling furiously” or “wanton and furious cycling.”"

On the public road, that's true.

But specific areas do have bylaws that cover cyclists. (Hampstead Heath 8mph, Richmond Park 20mph, Bournemouth Promenade 10mph). Speeding in these places is a breach of the bylaw in question. A completely different offence to the ones you refer to above. It doesn't matter whether you have a speedo or not, that's a total irrelevance.

I don't have a speedo. How can the plod enforce a no speeding bylaw regarding me?

Having or not having a speedo will make no more difference than the colour of your socks.
 
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TC99

Active Member
On the public road, that's true.

But specific areas do have bylaws that cover cyclists. (Hampstead Heath 8mph, Richmond Park 20mph, Bournemouth Promenade 10mph). Speeding in these places is a breach of the bylaw in question. A completely different offence to the ones you refer to above. It doesn't matter whether you have a speedo or not, that's a total irrelevance.



Having or not having a speedo will make no more difference than the colour of your socks.

"
Police have stated that the 20mph speed limit in London's Richmond Park does not apply to cyclists after Royal Parks confirmed that the restrictions only applied to motor vehicles.


The Metropolitan Police has confirmed that cyclists can not be prosecuted for going faster than 20mph around Richmond Park and other areas managed by Royal Parks, thus bringing an end to a long-running dispute between cyclists and police over the issue.

According to Twickenham Nub News, the Met has prosecuted multiple cyclists for speeding in the parks by using speed guns while hiding behind trees as well as making categorical statements saying cyclists should stick to the speed limit. "
 

TC99

Active Member
"A Royal Parks spokesperson said: "There is no speed limit for cycling on Britain’s roads as cyclists are not required to have a speedometer."
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
You are wrong on every level.
"
Rule 123 of the Highway Code includes a table that sets out the speed limits for various types of vehicles on different categories of road. The table does not include bicycles. So no, cyclists in the UK are not legally required to adhere to the same speed limits as motorists.

Cyclists who breach the speed limit may not be prosecuted for a speeding offence but they can, however, be prosecuted for “cycling furiously” or “wanton and furious cycling.”"
Who is being quoted there? The quote is painfully incorrect.
 

TC99

Active Member
"However, Royal Parks, the organisation that looks after Richmond Park, has said that the speed limit does not apply to cyclists meaning that any legal action by the police against cyclists over this issue may have been unlawful."
 

Dogtrousers

Lefty tighty. Get it righty.
"
Police have stated that the 20mph speed limit in London's Richmond Park does not apply to cyclists after Royal Parks confirmed that the restrictions only applied to motor vehicles.


The Metropolitan Police has confirmed that cyclists can not be prosecuted for going faster than 20mph around Richmond Park and other areas managed by Royal Parks, thus bringing an end to a long-running dispute between cyclists and police over the issue.

According to Twickenham Nub News, the Met has prosecuted multiple cyclists for speeding in the parks by using speed guns while hiding behind trees as well as making categorical statements saying cyclists should stick to the speed limit. "
I don't doubt it, but...

What does any of this have to do with your not having a speedo? It doesn't matter a damn whether any of the cyclists in questions have speedometers or not. Or what colour their socks are. That's an irrelevance

"A Royal Parks spokesperson said: "There is no speed limit for cycling on Britain’s roads as cyclists are not required to have a speedometer."
A Royal Parks Spokesperson was talking out of their arse. If it doesn't apply to cyclists, then it doesn't matter whether the cyclists to whom it does not apply do or do not have speedometers.
 
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TC99

Active Member
Metropolitan police, Mark Ottowell confirmed the answer: "The legislation regarding speeding covers motor (or mechanically propelled) vehicles only."
 

Dogtrousers

Lefty tighty. Get it righty.
Metropolitan police, Mark Ottowell confirmed the answer: "The legislation regarding speeding covers motor (or mechanically propelled) vehicles only."

Sure. So if it applies to motor vehicles only, then doesn't apply to bikes, full stop. Nothing to do with speedometers, that's a pointless irrelevance.
 
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