New offences for cyclists/cycling

[Binky]

Gadzooks, what's with all the incivility? My line hasn't changed either.


Basically, yes. In the unlikely event anyone tries to sue or prosecute Cateye over a collision due to their dazzling lights, they'll blame the user, possibly pointing out they never claimed any road-legal compliance, except for a few like the GVolt range rarely sold in the UK. And they'd probably succeed. Cateye feel it's worth the tiny risk in order to keep selling their most profitable substandard tat here, instead of what they sell in Germany.

What incivility?

 

[Binky]

Most bike lights sold in the UK are not legal for use as the only front/rear lights on a bike.

Ones that are to bright are very questionable whether they are road legal (questionable because there is no fixed limit on brightness, just a rather subjective test of whether they dazzle), but would still be legal for off road use, so perfectly legal to sell.

Having said which, under the details of the brightest one https://www.cateyecycling.co.uk/products/cateye-viz-450-rear-bike-light
it says:
"Long rear beam projection technology greatly increases the effective visibility range, giving motorists more time to react."

Which definitely implies they think the light is suitable for road use. Which is very questionab

If there is no fixed limit on brightness how then can the lights be illegal?

 

[Dogtrousers]

If there is no fixed limit on brightness how then can the lights be illegal?

They have to conform to standards. BS3648, or BS6102/3, or an equivalent EC standard. It's all in the thread above.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Or that it is brighter than four candles and flashes at a fixed rate between 1 and 4 cycles a second, with no other mode.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Because of this little spat I thought I'd actually check out what the standards are and do a bit of background reading.

According to BSI
Government guidance (which makes reference to Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations, specifically SI 2005 No 2559) refers to BS6102 part 3 or the "corresponding standard of any EU country".
BS6102-3:1986 Cycles - Specification for photometric and physical requirements of lighting equipment is current but the BSI charge £158 for a download.
The alternative is any EU equivalent, and anecdotally Germany springs to mind when it comes to bike lighting standards. Thats Straßenverkehrs-Zulassungs-Ordnung or StVZO (I hope your German is good)

Some manufacturers will get products compliance tested to StVZO if they are aiming at the German market. No-one seems to give a damn about BS6102-3 because ... well no-one else gives a damn, so why should they? If you are a compliance-obsessive, go for StVZO compliant lights. Then you get some kind of guarantee that your lights will be safe and effective. Which isn't to say that non-compliant lights are necessarily unsafe or ineffective, you just don't know.

The chances that not using a compliant light will cause you any legal problem are very very low. The chances that you buy a non-compliant light that dazzles other road users, confuses them, or is otherwise ineffective or counter-effective are real.

Conclusion: It's a complete mess. Nobody enforces it. Manufacturers don't give a damn and don't get their equipment compliance tested unless they are aiming for the German market, in which case they get StVZO certified.

Oh yeah, and pedal reflectors are mandatory.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Oh yeah, and pedal reflectors are mandatory.

But only if your saddle is over a certain height, and between sunset and sunrise …

 

[Binky]

Because of this little spat I thought I'd actually check out what the standards are and do a bit of background reading.

According to BSI
Government guidance (which makes reference to Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations, specifically SI 2005 No 2559) refers to BS6102 part 3 or the "corresponding standard of any EU country".
BS6102-3:1986 Cycles - Specification for photometric and physical requirements of lighting equipment is current but the BSI charge £158 for a download.
The alternative is any EU equivalent, and anecdotally Germany springs to mind when it comes to bike lighting standards. Thats Straßenverkehrs-Zulassungs-Ordnung or StVZO (I hope your German is good)

Some manufacturers will get products compliance tested to StVZO if they are aiming at the German market. No-one seems to give a damn about BS6102-3 because ... well no-one else gives a damn, so why should they? If you are a compliance-obsessive, go for StVZO compliant lights. Then you get some kind of guarantee that your lights will be safe and effective. Which isn't to say that non-compliant lights are necessarily unsafe or ineffective, you just don't know.

The chances that not using a compliant light will cause you any legal problem are very very low. The chances that you buy a non-compliant light that dazzles other road users, confuses them, or is otherwise ineffective or counter-effective are real.

Conclusion: It's a complete mess. Nobody enforces it. Manufacturers don't give a damn and don't get their equipment compliance tested unless they are aiming for the German market, in which case they get StVZO certified.

Oh yeah, and pedal reflectors are mandatory.

OK but what about in the USA? Given the history of litigation there I'd be amazed if the lights which are the same as sold here in UK are't legal. Maybe the USA has different regs or whatever but I'd be very surprised if all this hasn't been an issue there.

Anyway. I really don't care if the light I use is legal or not quite frankly.

I contacted Cateye this morning with a series of questions so I'm waiting to see response.

 

[Dogtrousers]

OK but what about in the USA?

Jeez you don't want much do you? I'm not interested in bicycle lighting regulations in the USA which will be entirely different to those in Europe. But if you want to research it go ahead. We're waiting for your report.

 

[Dogtrousers]

But only if your saddle is over a certain height, and between sunset and sunrise …

Thanks for that bit of pedantry. You have put me to shame

 

[Binky]

Jeez you don't want much do you? I'm not interested in bicycle lighting regulations in the USA. But if you want to research it go ahead. We're waiting for your report.

You and probably not for the first time have misinterpreted a post.
I also don't care about USA, seeing as I'm not bothered if my light is legal in UK where I usually ride then I think its safe to say I care less for elsewhere.
The entire point is seeing as they are the same lights then if they are illegal in UK - which is the point being made by you and others - then I'd be surprised if legal in USA where there tends to be from time to time the occasional law suit issued. I'm not asking you to investigate USA regulations. I rather thought that wouldn't be needed to state but seems it is.

 

[Dogtrousers]

OK but what about in the USA?

I also don't care about USA,

You seem confused.

 

[Binky]

You seem confused.

You and probably not for the first time have misinterpreted a post.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Fun fact

As of the start of Dec 2024 flashing lights are illegal (or is that just not legal?) in France.
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/id/LEGISCTA000006108688

V.-La nuit, ou le jour lorsque la visibilité est insuffisante, tout engin de déplacement personnel motorisé ou cycle doit être muni d'un feu de position arrière. Ce feu ne doit pas être clignotant et doit être nettement visible de l'arrière lorsque le véhicule est monté. Tout engin de déplacement personnel motorisé ou cycle peut être muni d'un feu de position arrière supplémentaire répondant aux mêmes caractéristiques. Le conducteur peut porter sur lui un tel feu.

V. At night, or during the day when visibility is insufficient, every motorized personal mobility device or bicycle must be equipped with a rear position light. This light must not be flashing and must be clearly visible from the rear when the vehicle is in use. Any motorized personal mobility device or bicycle may be equipped with an additional rear position light meeting the same specifications. The rider may also wear such a light.

This is "Le Code de la Route", the French Highway Code.

 

[Binky]

Fun fact

As of the start of Dec 2024 flashing lights are illegal (or is that just not legal?) in France.
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/id/JORFTEXT000050674577

Le V de l'article R. 313-5 est ainsi modifié : 1° A la deuxième phrase, après les mots : « Ce feu », sont insérés les mots : « ne doit pas être clignotant et »

Section V of Article R. 313-5 is amended as follows: 1° In the second sentence, after the words: "This light", the words "must not be flashing and" are inserted;

You seem confused. We're in UK and discussing UK regs and whether the lights are legal here not France.

*See. Misinterpreting a post, fun for all the family.

** For clarification as it seems it's needed, I'm joking. This is meant in an entirely humerous way.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

It does seem weird that
a) people are discussing whether or not some lights are legal - when we all have seen loads of bikes riding around at night with no lights f any kind anywhere
and a light - or several in my case, is always better than none (excepting ones that dazzle)
b) when you look for bike lights, then very few can be found that actually specify that they comply with any UK laws or standards anyway