New wheels! (Fulcrum Racing 5)

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Location
Loch side.
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Meaningless drivel.

The rims are "very wide". No they're not. They are x mm wide. In fact, 19mm is pretty standard.
"Stable tyre shape". What would be an unstable tyre shape? Tyres are inherently stable, what do they mean?
Super smooth flow. What does this mean?
Zip around corners. All wheels can corner but none can zip.
Accelerate almost as well as the carbon wheels. I see no units or magnitudes of acceleration here and the author clearly doesn't understand the physics of an accelerating bicycle.
Outstanding handbuilt quality. It means nothing without the detail. Has he stress-relieved his spokes? are the blades in alignment? Has he flattened the spokes into the hub? Has he fixed the spoke line? Has he crossed the spokes the right number of times? Are the pushing and pulling spokes on the front left correct?
The spokes haven't flinched during the test. No, but I'm flinching now. I can feel a pulse in my left temple.
Alloy nipples? What alloy? Brass is an alloy? Aluminium on the other hand may or may not be alloyed? What are they made of? Does the reviewer really think they will fail, no matter what material, after just one test ride? What put his mind at rest?
Bombproof hubs? At least we know they will work in Syria. Why not tell us about the bearing style, how they are adjusted and how easy it is to remove the bearings? And...how do they make lightweight armour?


See what I mean? And it doesn't get any better than this, believe me.
 
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I don't know but I would imagine the fact that you're putting a disk brake in the centre doesn't mean you couldn't lace up a disk hub onto a "conventional" rim..
Thanks. I assumed it would be daft to fit a 'conventional' rim onto a disk brake wheel as the braking surface is not required.

Boutique wheel is slang for fancy factory-built wheel posing as something that will make you faster and more attractive to the opposite sex.
I see. I would like to go faster and hoped new (lighter) wheels might help. Seems I have been misguided. Re: the second part, all the ladies I know

search for the thread with me as author and keywords such as acceleration, momentum and rotating mass (perhaps even red wheels). We did the math and thinking behind various claims made by the industry. We have quantified the advantages (or not) in understandable units with clear science explained in layman's terms
I'll do that forthwith. Cheers.

If you are not making an emotional choice then you would not be looking at 24-spoke wheels
I was only looking at them because as stated I don't know good from bad and if you start searching for road wheels online that's what you find, at least initially. There was nothing emotional in my search, I was just going with what was presented to me, and assuming that 24 would be plenty given I only have 21 now.

Don't be tempted by sexy red nipples

Don't worry - I've made that mistake before and learned my lesson. So long as they don't have tassles I'll be safe from temptation....

You ask for pointers. Here goes:

1) Standard spokes with elbows, mushroom heads and threads. These will be made from stainless steel, double-butted and from one of the recognized nd proven manufacturers namely DT Swiss, Sapim, Wheelsmith, WTB or Pillar. They will have a 2mm thread so that any standard nipple will work with it.
2) Standard brass Nipples. These don't corrode, can be tuned 20 years after assembly and don't develop stress cracks. They are available in black and silver only. Don't be tempted by sexy red nipples. Coloured nipples are anodized and only aluminium can be anodized. Aluminium nipples are rubbish.
3) Standard rims. These will be made from aluminium, in a low profile box section or low-profile aero. Examples to look at are Mavic Open PRO, Mavic CXP33, DRC ST-17 etc. Drilling 28 (for you) or 32 if you want to do some touring. The reason for choosing rims with a history is because a) they are proven and b) when you have to replace them, they are still available. You can't just swap rims to different types because they all require spokes of different lengths. You want to re-use your spokes and minimimise costs when the rims do dent or buckle in an accident.
4) Standard hubs. No fancy paired spoke designs or straight-pull spokes or such nonsense. They will have flat flanges drilled for elbow spokes. Taiwanese and Chinese brands come and go. Get classics - New Old Stock (NOS) Campag Records will be fantastic but so is Ultegra or if you want to spend money, Dura Ace. If you choose hubs with cartridge bearings, why not something like Hope?
5) Spoke design. The spokes must be crossed 3X for disc brake use. Don't fall for radial lacing or any other fancy mixed patterns. Also, the spokes must be double-butted. You can choose the 2mm-1.8mm-2mm style for economy or the 2mm - 1.5mm - 2.mm style for saving a bit of weight (there, I've said the W word) but increasing durability by a factor of many. However, building with the latter requires special skill. The builder should understand which spokes on the f front wheel left side should be crossed which way.

Brilliant, just what I was hoping someone could provide. I'm much obliged.
Re: rims - "You can't just swap rims to different types because they all require spokes of different lengths. You want to re-use your spokes and minimimise costs when the rims do dent or buckle in an accident." I didn't know this. I guess a way around it is to buy a couple of spare rims at the point of buying the wheels, though I appreciate this hardly suggests a confidence in the product.
Re: hubs - I have been looking at Dura Ace but they are out of my budget, unless I wait until next year, which might be the sensible option. Buy well, buy once and all that. I'm not sure how good I'd be at adjusting cone bearings so cartridge do appeal in that respect. You'd recommend Hope hubs generally then?

Meaningless drivel.

Yep. But they are made in Sheffield....I admit to some emotion creeping in at this point....:blush:
 
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Location
Loch side.
Thanks. I assumed it would be daft to fit a 'conventional' rim onto a disk brake wheel as the braking surface is not required.


I suppose so. The extra machining makes it a bit more expensive but there's no engineering reason why you would not do it. If I want to rationalize it I would say it would future-proof the wheels when one day you need a spare wheel for your wife's bike. You could then just remove the disc and fit it to a caliper brake bike.


I guess a way around it is to buy a couple of spare rims at the point of buying the wheels, though I appreciate this hardly suggests a confidence in the product.

Accidents happen. Hitting a pothole is not a function of the wheel's quality. Rims are quasi consumables.

Re: hubs - I have been looking at Dura Ace but they are out of my budget, unless I wait until next year, which might be the sensible option. Buy well, buy once and all that. I'm not sure how good I'd be at adjusting cone bearings so cartridge do appeal in that respect. You'd recommend Hope hubs generally then?

Even Shimano 105s are superb. They have the same quality as Dura Ace in every respect, but less frills and bling. The axle is steel rather than aluminium and the anodizing is not as polished etc etc. But inside it is the same quality and dare I say, durability.
I like Hope hubs. I have several reasons for preferring them over other hubs:

1) Available in multiple colours. This was important to me because customers always wanted to match this with that. Further, the spare parts are not colour-specific and I only had to stock one of each, no matter how many colours on the market.
2) They are convertible from through axle to QR to 20mm TA to etc etc etc. All you do if you change your bike and find you have a different fork on there is buy a new end cap and pop that onto the axle.
3) You could buy them without skewers. Hope skewers are crap. I used to fit Shimano skewers if the customer allowed me to. Otherwise, colour-matched Hope skewers is what they got.
4) The bearings are large. It adds to durability but doesn't solve the inherent cartridge bearing problem.
5) The freewheel was nice and loud and this scared old ladies and little children right out of your path. Actually, I hated the sound but customers loved it.
6) The hubs have all the engineering properties that a wheelbuilder wants - chamfered spoke holes and curved flanges, for instance. Consumers don't see this but it makes for durable wheels because it is gentle on spokes.
7) The freehub is serviceable on the trail. Even if the springs fail, you can substitute the little steel leaf springs with small pieces of cable tie plastic. Also, the freehub must be made of steel, if a Shimano cassette will be used on the wheel. Titanium will also work but not aluminium.

[/QUOTE]

Yep. But they are made in Sheffield....I admit to some emotion creeping in at this point....:blush:

I understand you are only joking but regional bias plays a very important part in the bicycle games. People will chose rubbish Made in America over quality made in China. That's why there's such a big market in China for American, Swiss, Italian and British flag decals, so that they can be inserted under the final clearcoat of lacquer sprayed onto excellent Chinese carbon frames and forks. At Tesco you can find a bottle of coconut oil with a prominent Union Jack displayed on the lid. Go figure.
 
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winjim

Smash the cistern
2) Standard brass Nipples. These don't corrode, can be tuned 20 years after assembly and don't develop stress cracks. They are available in black and silver only. Don't be tempted by sexy red nipples. Coloured nipples are anodized and only aluminium can be anodize
That avatar of yours...
 

Kevoffthetee

On the road to nowhere
I've got a set of fulcrum forty4's (quattro's) ready for when the defy gets the shifters replaced. Nothing wrong with the giant stock wheels but the fulcrum so match the colour scheme of the defy0
and here they are fitted. they're first ride out was in howling Northumberland winds and most of the ride was at 45 degrees. rolled well though
 

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You can choose the 2mm-1.8mm-2mm style for economy or the 2mm - 1.5mm - 2.mm style for saving a bit of weight (there, I've said the W word) but increasing durability by a factor of many. However, building with the latter requires special skill. The builder should understand which spokes on the f front wheel left side should be crossed which way.

Just to clarify - to me this reads this as you saying that 2/1.8/2mm spokes are cheaper, but 2/1.5/2 spokes are both lighter and significantly more durable. Am I mis-reading you? Surely they'd be less durable if thinner and lighter?

Hope skewers are crap
Seems odd that a company could make an excellent Hub, with all the design and engineering that goes into such a piece of kit, but then fail to make a decent skewer. What constitutes a crap skewer exactly?

Thanks again for all the info.
 
Location
Loch side.
Just to clarify - to me this reads this as you saying that 2/1.8/2mm spokes are cheaper, but 2/1.5/2 spokes are both lighter and significantly more durable. Am I mis-reading you? Surely they'd be less durable if thinner and lighter?


Seems odd that a company could make an excellent Hub, with all the design and engineering that goes into such a piece of kit, but then fail to make a decent skewer. What constitutes a crap skewer exactly?

Thanks again for all the info.
Both spokes are drawn from 2mm wire but the thinner ones have be cold-forged more than their slightly thicker cousins, which gives them better metallurgical properties. Further, the thinner shank flexes more, thus relieving strain on the two weak areas, the elbow and first thread. They are more durable by a factor of about ten. The concept of thin shanks and thicker threaded areas in bolts and spokes is counter-intuitive.
 
Location
Loch side.
Seems odd that a company could make an excellent Hub, with all the design and engineering that goes into such a piece of kit, but then fail to make a decent skewer. What constitutes a crap skewer exactly?

Thanks again for all the info.

A good skewer has an internal cam enclosed by the lever-side of the skewer head. External cams have too much friction for a proper closure. Further, some (but not Hope in this case) have cams that slide against a plastic piece. This is a very poor idea since the plastic deforms long before you have the type of tension in the skewer required for a proper fix of the rear wheel. Good skewers will also have steel teeth, not aluminium. the latter does not bite into the frame enough to create a secure fit. You'll notice on good Shimano skewers that the skewer nut is mostly aluminium (for weigh) but has steel inserts with teeth.
Skewers require far more tension that most people give them.
 

Postmanhat

Senior Member
Location
Derby
To avoid starting another thread, can I jump in here asking for opinions on these, or alternatives?

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-ultegra-6800-mavic-open-pro-wheelset/

Nearly all my cycling is up and down in the peak district, so am looking for something good for climbing/descending if there is such a thing? Am too lazy to sustain speed on the flat so aero isn't a consideration. Max budget is £400 and Ultegra compatible. Am just riding for fitness/enjoyment at the moment and the odd sportive
 

uclown2002

Guru
Location
Harrogate
To avoid starting another thread, can I jump in here asking for opinions on these, or alternatives?

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-ultegra-6800-mavic-open-pro-wheelset/

Nearly all my cycling is up and down in the peak district, so am looking for something good for climbing/descending if there is such a thing? Am too lazy to sustain speed on the flat so aero isn't a consideration. Max budget is £400 and Ultegra compatible. Am just riding for fitness/enjoyment at the moment and the odd sportive
What is your current wheelset and what is wrong with them?
 

Spoked Wheels

Legendary Member
Location
Bournemouth
To avoid starting another thread, can I jump in here asking for opinions on these, or alternatives?

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-ultegra-6800-mavic-open-pro-wheelset/

Nearly all my cycling is up and down in the peak district, so am looking for something good for climbing/descending if there is such a thing? Am too lazy to sustain speed on the flat so aero isn't a consideration. Max budget is £400 and Ultegra compatible. Am just riding for fitness/enjoyment at the moment and the odd sportive

The Mavic Open Pro rims are classic and I don't need to mention how good the Ultegra hubs are.

I can't give an opinion on how well the wheels are built though.
 

Postmanhat

Senior Member
Location
Derby
What is your current wheelset and what is wrong with them?

Sorry, should have mentioned these are for a new 'summer' bike I'm building on a Planet X Pro Carbon frame, with ultegra groupset. My existing Cube Peleton Race with Mavic Aksiums, will become a winter bike, after a long-overdue dose of tlc
 
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