No wonder many dislike cyclists

[Alex321]

• I agree the "floating" bus stops are a dumb idea, but what's the actual solution?
  • If you put the bus stop right next to the pavement, then the bus drivers can endanger cyclists when they pull in to the stop, or out from it.

This is the norm, the "floating" bus stops are an attempt to reduce this isue, and only tend to be used in the busiest places.

• • If you use the "floating" bus stop, the buses aren't in the cyclists' way, but the pedestrians and cyclists can get in each others' way.

Yep. Exactly as shown in the newspaper report linked above.

• • If you put the bicycle lane on the extreme left of the road, with the pedestrian path (and bus stop) to its right, then the pedestrians must cross the bicycle lane to reach the footpath and bus stop.

While this is true, I think it would be less oi an issue, because people would be corssing in small numbers, rather than everybody rushing at once when the bus pulls in. And pedestrians and cyclists would have a better view of each other, as the bus shelter would not be in the way.

• The inflammatory article about the cyclists is a PERFECT example of outgroup homogeneity effect: basically it's saying that all cyclists are bad just because a few do dumb things. Meanwhile, every year, huge numbers of people are killed by motorists doing dumb things, but that doesn't attract anywhere near the same level of media outrage.

There are so many, it is no longer newsworthy, which is why it doesn't.

 

[matticus]

Having seen the video AGAIN* this morning, i was made aware of something I'd missed:

This isn't really a proper "zebra crossing". It has no zig-zag lines either side, and no beacon (or other visible signage). I've seen them referred to as "Courtesy crossings".

I think it's completely reasonable to expect them to get less respect than "proper" zebras. But it is an unfortunate source of conflict.

*This time it was being discussed by a member of one of the associations for blind people.

 

[fossyant]

The 'floating bus stops' in Manchester (Oxford Road and further down to Fallowfield) are a nightmare for pedestrians. The cycle lane often routes behind the bus stop, so there is zero visibility for cyclists and pedestrians, and that's then chucking in loads of students and food delivery people on bikes who pay zero attention to road rules.

 

[matticus]

"The inflammatory article about the cyclists is a PERFECT example of outgroup homogeneity effect: basically it's saying that all cyclists are bad just because a few do dumb things. Meanwhile, every year, huge numbers of people are killed by motorists doing dumb things, but that doesn't attract anywhere near the same level of media outrage."

There are so many, it is no longer newsworthy, which is why it doesn't.

Bang on!

 

[matticus]

• I agree the "floating" bus stops are a dumb idea, but what's the actual solution?
  • If you put the bus stop right next to the pavement, then the bus drivers can endanger cyclists when they pull in to the stop, or out from it.
  • If you use the "floating" bus stop, the buses aren't in the cyclists' way, but the pedestrians and cyclists can get in each others' way.
  • If you put the bicycle lane on the extreme left of the road, with the pedestrian path (and bus stop) to its right, then the pedestrians must cross the bicycle lane to reach the footpath and bus stop.
• The inflammatory article about the cyclists is a PERFECT example of outgroup homogeneity effect: basically it's saying that all cyclists are bad just because a few do dumb things. Meanwhile, every year, huge numbers of people are killed by motorists doing dumb things, but that doesn't attract anywhere near the same level of media outrage.

Australia has the same problems, by the way: we tend to follow the UK in our general approach to roads and transport.

Yup.

Let's see what the public make of this:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...at-killed-seven-including-two-police-officers

That's SEVEN PEOPLE INCLUDING TWO POLICE OFFICERS.

 

[Alex321]

Having seen the video AGAIN* this morning, i was made aware of something I'd missed:

This isn't really a proper "zebra crossing". It has no zig-zag lines either side, and no beacon (or other visible signage). I've seen them referred to as "Courtesy crossings".

I think it's completely reasonable to expect them to get less respect than "proper" zebras. But it is an unfortunate source of conflict.

*This time it was being discussed by a member of one of the associations for blind people.

The ones in Cardiff I posted up streetview of do have zigzags, and SLOW/ARAF painted on the cycle path leading to them. No beacons or vertical signs though.

 

[Rusty Nails]

, I think they are a bloody stupid idea, and can see why not all cyclists do, particularly on very busy cycle lanes.

I can see why they are considered a bad idea, but it does not excuse self-entitled cyclists endangering pedestrians who have to use them, especially if, as commuters, they know they are there.
I know that bus stop outside the castle. There are not that many of them and at worst they will add a few seconds to the commute.

My son is partially sighted and has to use that crossing and he is very nervous about it, having had a couple of close calls. He says he has more issues with cyclists ignoring pedestrian crossings than with cars, even though there are fewer cyclists than car drivers around Cardiff.

Thinking a law is “bloody stupid” is not a good reason for ignoring it.

 

[ianrauk]

The ones in Cardiff I posted up streetview of do have zigzags, and SLOW/ARAF painted on the cycle path leading to them. No beacons or vertical signs though.

The one I (rarely) use in Lewisham has no zigzags or SLOW markings, but does have very sharp raised/dropped parts (at the arrows)
As it's on a bus only lane it's often far better, safer and quicker to use that lane rather then the cycle bit.

 

[Alex321]

I can see why they are considered a bad idea, but it does not excuse self-entitled cyclists endangering pedestrians who have to use them, especially if, as commuters, they know they are there.
I know that bus stop outside the castle. There are not that many of them and at worst they will add a few seconds to the commute.

My son is partially sighted and has to use that crossing and he is very nervous about it, having had a couple of close calls. He says he has more issues with cyclists ignoring pedestrian crossings than with cars, even though there are fewer cyclists than car drivers around Cardiff.

Thinking a law is “bloody stupid” is not a good reason for ignoring it.

Agreed. I wasn't excusing it, just saying I can see why some cyclists do ignore it - I don't.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Yup.

Let's see what the public make of this:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...at-killed-seven-including-two-police-officers

That's SEVEN PEOPLE INCLUDING TWO POLICE OFFICERS.

 

[presta]

I agree the "floating" bus stops are a dumb idea, but what's the actual solution?

The solution is to get rid of the cycle path and ride on the road with the rest of the traffic, as several on this thread have said they do.

The inflammatory article about the cyclists is a PERFECT example of outgroup homogeneity effect: basically it's saying that all cyclists are bad just because a few do dumb things.

I think it's a bit more than just gratuitously inflammatory, I wouldn't want anything to do with that cycle path, either as a cyclist or a pedestrian.

This isn't really a proper "zebra crossing". It has no zig-zag lines either side, and no beacon (or other visible signage). I've seen them referred to as "Courtesy crossings".

I think it's completely reasonable to expect them to get less respect than "proper" zebras.

I doubt the majority of those passing over these crossings have any idea that they're not legally valid, in which case that wouldn't have any bearing on their decision to ignore them.

Yup.

Let's see what the public make of this:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...at-killed-seven-including-two-police-officers

That's SEVEN PEOPLE INCLUDING TWO POLICE OFFICERS.

It's had a lot more coverage on national TV than I've ever seen on floating bus stops.

 

[Rusty Nails]

It's had a lot more coverage on national TV than I've ever seen on floating bus stops.

Yebbut we cyclists are a persecuted minority.

Many people don’t like us…get over it.

 

[matticus]

I doubt the majority of those passing over these crossings have any idea that they're not legally valid, in which case that wouldn't have any bearing on their decision to ignore them.

So you're just guessing, ok fine.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Needs some barriers that come down with flashing lights whilst bus being boarded. Bit like level crossings. This floating bus stop setup is like a level crossing with no barriers or warning lights. Poor design leads to poor outcomes.

 

[Rusty Nails]

So you're just guessing, ok fine.

Your post guessed that many cyclists who ignore them know their legal status and are therefore acting reasonably.