Not our finest 4 minutes in Bristol

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summerdays

Cycling in the sun
Location
Bristol
The term Road Tax is indeed factually incorrect. That's the point. If your going to debate, argue or berate such a point, first you have to know what your talking about. If the Guy had said "Cyclists dont pay VED" then yes he would be, to a point, factually correct.
I don't mind paying VED on my bikes assuming they are zero rated, or I've even seen that graph where they extrapolate the line and end up getting a tax rebate!! (Somehow I don't think that's going to happen!)
 
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BigAl68

Über Member
Location
Bath
I think the main reason this nobber posted is the current hatred at the Bristol mayor Mr George "red trousers" Ferguson. Red light jumping poor on the cyclists but there is a lot of hate towards George and plans which are considered anti car in the city by many residents. Personally the guy seems to be a bit of a Clarkson wannabe can't handle sharing the roads with anyone on a bike
 

50000tears

Senior Member
Location
Weymouth, Dorset
Unfortunately this just highlights the very widespread lack of understanding non-cyclists have about both the highway code, as it pertains to cyclists, and why we cycle in certain ways. Sadly most non-cyclists know nothing about riding in primary and why it is right to do so, or why overtaking on the right is very often far safer than filtering on the left, or why it is not appropriate or even safe to ride on cycle paths much of the time. The RLJers are annoying for all of us as are the pavement hoppers, but for 90% of what irks drivers it is their own ignorance of the highway code and until they get educated there will always be a them and us.
 

ianrauk

Tattooed Beat Messiah
Location
Rides Ti2
Unfortunately this just highlights the very widespread lack of understanding non-cyclists have about both the highway code, as it pertains to cyclists, and why we cycle in certain ways. Sadly most non-cyclists know nothing about riding in primary and why it is right to do so, or why overtaking on the right is very often far safer than filtering on the left, or why it is not appropriate or even safe to ride on cycle paths much of the time. The RLJers are annoying for all of us as are the pavement hoppers, but for 90% of what irks drivers it is their own ignorance of the highway code and until they get educated there will always be a them and us.


Spot on!
 
Any old farts remember this, a PIF from about twenty years ago or something? cycling safety clip, the voiceover goes "cyclists SEE more than other road users" and the camera pans back to show a cyclist riding wide to avoid a drain cover?

Same thing later on, rider approaches a parked car, door is suddenly flung open: "This is why cyclists ride wide!"

We need another one of them.
 

young Ed

Veteran
#7 was about indicating
how many times have i seen a car indicate, not enough i would say! how often do i indicate about 99% of the time

various about RLJ's (Red Light Jumpers), i have seen many cars go straight through reds and not seen many cyclists do the same

just my experience but to be fair i don't cycle in towns/ cities ever apart from to go to the bank or as i am passing through to get else where and in which case i take the quietest route possible in any case
Cheers Ed
 
Give me a week and I could film and edit together a compilation showing drivers running reds, parking in cycle lanes, speeding, not indicating and generally failing to follow the Highway Code.

I wonder if I could then use it as proof that there's not point in the local council investing in facilities for motorists because clearly, as you could see from a four minute, selectively edited video, all drivers are ungrateful scofflaws who don't believe the rules apply to them, hold up traffic with their rush-hour congestion and don't even pay Road Tax so why are they even allowed on the road in the first place? :cursing:
A week...

In Portsmouth you could do that in a day!
 

stowie

Legendary Member
Regarding the road tax old chestnut - I do have to say that as soon as anyone says "road tax was abolished in...." despite being factully correct, albeit in a very narrow sense, they have actully lost the argument before it's even started. I'm a cyclist but for me the difference between "vehicle tax" (or "excise duty" which means "tax" ) and "road tax" is irrelevant, and unless you are prepred to first explain what "hypothecation" means, you'll get nowhere.

Much more likely to pursuade is "how much extra tax do you think I should i pay for not driving today?". Or "how much road tax should my 4 year old daughter pay to ride her bike" or "how much more tax than a hybrid petrol car would be fair for a bike?" "Lorries, and for that matter, bentleys pay more tax than you - should they get right of way?" ... Or "isn't tax proportionate to wearing out the road - so a bike would be fourpence a decde then" etc

I think that by the time the argument has gone to the road tax myth, it isn't really worth having a serious conversation with the other person anyway. I have used previously the counter argument

"Well you are obviously not paying enough because the roads are in a shocking state"
and
"You are paying road tax because you choose to use transport which emits high quantities of poisons that are proven to kill. How much did you say you pay - £220 a year? Do you think that is a reasonable price to pay to be allowed to kill little children and the elderly and the infirm?"

Clearly these arguments are not really intended to foster a rational debate, but then neither is the road tax crap either.
 

stowie

Legendary Member
Couple of things to note about his driving which is quite priceless considering he is complaining about other road users. Firstly most of his overtaking is really, really poor and he clearly has no idea how to negotiate around other road users. Secondly the cyclist tripped the 30mph sign so was going probably at least 28mph, but the driver behind was rapidly catching up with the cyclist in the film meaning he must have been going considerably faster.
 

Profpointy

Legendary Member
The term Road Tax is indeed factually incorrect. That's the point. If your going to debate, argue or berate such a point, first you have to know what your talking about. If the Guy had said "Cyclists dont pay VED" then yes he would be, to a point, factually correct.

well not really - Ved is simply the formal name for the informal term "road tax." It a just synonym. "road tax" doesn't mean anything different nor imply that the tax is spent on roads - that's a different thing.
One might say "beer tax" instead of "alcohol excise duty" after all, without being "wrong" as such. No one then thinks alcohol tax is to pay for beer provision. Same as road tax - it's just a tax. .
 
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