On the dangers of filtering (part 2)...

[gaz]

Not trying to take away from LabRatts post but today I heard back from the police regarding the below incidence and decided to publish it for all to see due to no further action being taken.

Video for all to watch: p.s. watch to the end, it is worth it


I made a few mistakes here:
- filtered too close to other vehicles, if I had been further into the other side of the road, i would have had more time to react. I suspect a problem here was that I was so close to the vehicle that I couldn't counter steer to get away.
- Not predicting that such a manoeuvre might happen near a junction.

The drivers mistakes:
- He failed to look in his mirrors before moving (I should be clearly visible, my front exposure light was on pulse mode, as can be seen in the video)
- he failed to indicate his intentions before moving
- he started a turn before he got to the junction, which is not usual practise.

Notes:
- I was traveling at around 13 - 15mph at the moment of impact.
- My front light was on pulse mode (always on but has a bright flash built in)
- I did not want to push anything with the police, the damage to myself and the bike was minor. I believe the driver understood that it was his mistake.
- The driver said that he wasn't going to go down here, instead he choose to take the turn as a short cut (it is a dead end :S )
- Bicycles are allowed to filter: see Rule 88 of the highway code "when filtering in slow-moving traffic, take care and keep your speed low."
- Bicycles are allowed to overtake on zigzag lines at the approach to a zebra crossing: See section 28 of 'The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002' It says (note the use of motor vehicle) "a zig-zag line shall convey the requirement that, whilst any motor vehicle (in this regulation called "the approaching vehicle") or any part of it is within the limits of a controlled area and is proceeding towards the signal-controlled crossing facility to which the controlled area relates, the driver of the vehicle shall not cause it or any part of it—

(a)to pass ahead of the foremost part of any other motor vehicle proceeding in the same direction; or

(b)to pass ahead of the foremost part of a vehicle which is stationary for the purpose of complying with the indication given by a traffic light signal for controlling vehicular traffic."

I hope that people can learn from this, I know I have; use as much of the road as possible when filtering to avoid such things as much as possible. Look at those just before the turning when stuck in traffic, they may try to nip out and make the turn.

 

[ianrauk]

That is exactly what happened to me when the copper hit me last year. Executed a u-turn without indicating. Though I managed to fly over the handle bars and land on my shoulder momentarily knocking me out.

 

[jonnyg2210]

sorry but do you consider 13-15 mph a low speed for filtering? on the outside of a lane of traffic seems like you are asking for an accident you didn't really give any room for anything as he barely moved

 

[Deleted member 1258]

sorry but do you consider 13-15 mph a low speed for filtering? on the outside of a lane of traffic seems like you are asking for an accident you didn't really give any room for anything as he barely moved

13-15 mph is too fast for filtering past stationary/slow moving traffic, personally I would want to keep my speed well down into single figures.

 

[gaz]

sorry but do you consider 13-15 mph a low speed for filtering? on the outside of a lane of traffic seems like you are asking for an accident you didn't really give any room for anything as he barely moved

Yes, i believe 13 - 15mph is a speed which is comfortable to stop quickly in a short space of time.
My mistake in this case was being too close to the vehicle as I passed it, and as such I could do very little to avoid a collision. To avoid such a manoeuvre you must counter steer and if there is no room to your left, how can you?
If in this situation, all I changed was my speed, maybe knocked 5mph off, I don't think the outcome would have been much different.

 

[Matthew_T]

That is exactly what happened to me when the copper hit me last year. Executed a u-turn without indicating. Though I managed to fly over the handle bars and land on my shoulder momentarily knocking me out.

I dont know if it is just me but when I was taught bikeability, I was told not to indicate when making a U-turn. I believe the same goes for when you are in a car (although I may be wrong). The conditions of the situation might have been different though, as you were filtering he probably should have indicated to signal that he was moving out of stationary traffic.

 

[Deleted member 1258]

Yes, i believe 13 - 15mph is a speed which is comfortable to stop quickly in a short space of time.
My mistake in this case was being too close to the vehicle as I passed it, and as such I could do very little to avoid a collision. To avoid such a manoeuvre you must counter steer and if there is no room to your left, how can you?
If in this situation, all I changed was my speed, maybe knocked 5mph off, I don't think the outcome would have been much different.

This is something we might have agree to disagree on, 13-15mph is too fast for filtering, by slowing down you give yourself more time, more time to see and more time to act, same as if you are further away from the traffic that distance gives you more time.. Also a bike will turn surprisingly quickly without the rider needing to counter steer. I learnt my lesson about filtering the hard way, 2005 Binley Rd Coventry, on the left in the cycle lane carrying too much speed, driver turning right through the traffic into a side road, I was too close too fast and face planted on his bonnet, for a week I looked like I had fought 10 rounds with Lennox Lewis.

 

[gaz]

This is something we might have agree to disagree on, 13-15mph is too fast for filtering, by slowing down you give yourself more time, more time to see and more time to act, same as if you are further away from the traffic that distance gives you more time.. Also a bike will turn surprisingly quickly without the rider needing to counter steer. I learnt my lesson about filtering the hard way, 2005 Binley Rd Coventry, on the left in the cycle lane carrying too much speed, driver turning right through the traffic into a side road, I was too close too fast and face planted on his bonnet, for a week I looked like I had fought 10 rounds with Lennox Lewis.

I never said it was too fast for this situation so are we really agreeing to disagree?
Ultimately a slower speed and further away would be the best way to approach such a level of traffic on approach to a potential turning.

 

[RiflemanSmith]

sorry but do you consider 13-15 mph a low speed for filtering? on the outside of a lane of traffic seems like you are asking for an accident you didn't really give any room for anything as he barely moved

Yes would you consider 15mph fast for a motor bike filtering?

 

[HLaB]

Not trying to take away from LabRatts post but today I heard back from the police regarding the below incidence and decided to publish it for all to see due to no further action being taken.

Video for all to watch: p.s. watch to the end, it is worth it


I made a few mistakes here:
- filtered too close to other vehicles, if I had been further into the other side of the road, i would have had more time to react. I suspect a problem here was that I was so close to the vehicle that I couldn't counter steer to get away.
- Not predicting that such a manoeuvre might happen near a junction.

[Snip]

Glad you managed to jump out of it but as you've admitted not predicting is the biggest mistake IMO. Yeah, the driver made mistakes too but only one party would have been physically hurt, take care

 

[Deleted member 1258]

so are we really agreeing to disagree?
.

Yes , you said 13-15 is a speed you can stop comfortably in, thus saying its an acceptable speed, I'm saying its too fast so we are disagreeing. in this situation both party's are at fault, you are too fast too close and the driver isn't paying enough attention.

 

[Ningishzidda]

Yes, I believe 13 - 15mph is a speed which is comfortable to stop quickly in a short space of time.
My mistake in this case was being too close to the vehicle as I passed it, and as such I could do very little to avoid a collision. To avoid such a manoeuvre you must counter steer and if there is no room to your left, how can you?
If in this situation, all I changed was my speed, maybe knocked 5mph off, I don't think the outcome would have been much different.

Obviously not.

If you consider your handlebar end scraping the road surface part of the 'emergency stop' manouver, you might be correct.
I don't think it is.

 

[GrasB]

In all honesty, gaz was already along side the car when he started to turn the front wheels. Even if he had stopped dead he almost certainly would have been hit by the turning car at that distance out. At that speed but 2 or 3x that distance out he would have been fine.

Also a bike will turn surprisingly quickly without the rider needing to counter steer.

The only way to turn a bike without countersteer is to physically lean into the corner with your upper body & pull the bike into the lean that way. That's fine for fairly smooth turning but for short sharp turns it genrally leave you on the deck as you'll tend to overshoot & not balence the bike properly. You will counter steer even if you're unaware of it.

 

[LabRatt]

Coulda woulda shoulda. If you'd been slower you might have been able to stop, if you'd been faster he might have been behind you, if you'd been further out you might have been able to avoid it. All the driver needed to do was check his mirror. You might have contributed to the collision, but he caused it.

 

[ianrauk]

Coulda woulda shoulda. If you'd been slower you might have been able to stop, if you'd been faster he might have been behind you, if you'd been further out you might have been able to avoid it. All the driver needed to do was check his mirror. You might have contributed to the collision, but he caused it.

This... in a nutshell.