Opinion requested for an incident in Nottingham

Was this incident my fault within the rules of the road?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2 6.5%
  • No

    Votes: 16 51.6%
  • Difficult to determine

    Votes: 13 41.9%

  • Total voters
    31

DaveTetlow

New Member
Hello,

I'm relatively new to cycling, and I have recently started cycling to work as a way to keep fit as I have a new son and my time for other sport activities has been reduced. I make sure I cycle as safely as possible wearing a helmet and high visibility top, and I don't cycle very fast (I use a hybrid)

This morning I was knocked off my bike by a motorist and received a minor injury for the event (a bruised and bloody elbow), in addition to this the motorist and her friend accused me of being in the wrong after I promptly asked them 'just what the hell were they thinking?' This left me a little in shock and very exasperated.

I'm not a violent person although I am very large (6ft 7in, 100kg) but rarely get angry , so I chose to remove myself from the situation pretty sharply to avoid any trouble. However, I have reflected on it afterwards and have realized I do not fully understand the rights of cyclist on the road (compared to motorist). I would therefore appreciate it if anyone could give me some feedback on my explanation of the event, and give me their third party opinion. The following occurred close to the forest park and ride in Nottingham:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Forest+Park+&+Ride/@52.9658085,-1.1649125,18z/data=!4m5!1m2!2m1!1spark+and+ride+near+Gregory+Blvd,+Nottingham+NG7+5JH,+UK!3m1!1s0x0000000000000000:0x156bf6f5ebcb6cf9

I was cycling down Gregory boulevard in Nottingham with the park on my left side, and traffic was reasonably busy although moving and overtaking me along the stretch of road. As I approached the Forest Park and ride, there were two cars, a silver Astra and a black BMW X5 to my right and I was cycling along side the X5. The Silver Astra started to indicate into the Park and ride, I noticed this and slowed to let it commit. The BMX X5 which I was cycling along side then moved into me and took me out. I slowed as much as possible, however I hit the side of the car and landed on my elbow on the road. There was busy traffic behind me at this point which had to stop because of the incident.

After shouting a lot of obscenities (that I'm now not proud of), I immediately walked up to the two cars. The lady from the Astra was out of her car asking the X5 Driver if she was OK and was stating the incident was my fault and at this point I assumed they were likely friends (they looked a similar age and dressed similar) and assumed the X5 was following the Astra into the park and ride without thinking and didn't look.

Their argument at this point was 'I was indicating, you should have stopped, so its your fault'. So she was inferring she knew I was there and committed to turn into me anyway. What I cannot recall is if they overtook me to get to the turn, or if I had cycled up to and alongside the X5 prior the event. I also do not remember seeing the X5 indicating but cannot be sure on this as it happened so quickly. Finally, I had plenty of witnesses and a pedestrian ran up to me after to check if I was OK, however I ignored this to go shouting at the motorist (something I now regret).

Having reviewed the advice online about incidents like this, in future I'll go strait to the witnesses. However, I wanted to ask some other cyclist what the rules are on motorists rights to do such a move, particularly when we were moving alongside each other for at least 5-10 seconds, and while I was clearly visible and in her turning zone? Do they have to let you pass on if they are in front of you when they want to turn? or are they permitted to cut you up like this?

To be honest I am not sure whether the incident was in fact my fault of the X5, however I will be very careful in future when something similar happens

Dave
 

vickster

Legendary Member
It sounds like it is the fault of the driver from what you say, they turned left into you, regardless of whether or not there was indication (which would be unusual from a BMW soft roader driver). Were you in a bike lane or simply left filtering? Did you get the reg number and exchange details - from what you say not? The motorist, regardless of who may or may not be at fault is obliged to report the accident to the police as you were hurt. They also need to tell their insurer

As a next step, if unclear about your rights on the road as a cyclist, get hold of a copy of Cyclecraft by John Franklin (Amazon or local library should have)
 
Helmet cam

No confrontation,just stand there and think of puppies

Then point out that their driving and poor attitude will be with the Police later that day
 

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
[QUOTE="DaveTetlow, post: 3654782, member: 42830" What I cannot recall is if they overtook me to get to the turn, or if I had cycled up to and alongside the X5 prior the event. [/QUOTE]

There have been lots of nasty cycling accidents in which the cyclist has gone up the nearside of a vehicle which is turning left, usually at traffic lights.

This appears to be a moving situation which makes it hard to judge.

It may be the BMW has failed to complete an overtake of you and turned left regardless - dreadful driving.

If the BMW was about to embark on the left turn and you cycled up its nearside things are less clear cut.

As a driver, I will do all I can to avoid a collision and like to think I would have at least glanced in the nearside mirror before turning.

As a cyclist, I like to think I would have slowed so as not to pass near the junction with any car along side.
 

_aD

Do not touch suspicious objects
It can be difficult to remember details of distressing events like this; something I'm acutely aware of. If you take your attention off the road, events can quickly transpire against you, but I find it a little difficult to imagine that you'd ride up the inside of an indicating car. One has to be very inattentive or arrogant to pull such a stunt.

What disappoints me the most is that they do not seem to have been concerned with your welfare, rather they were more interested in placing blame. Even if you had acted foolishly, you're still a bloody, bruised person on the floor. I'd have been more worried for you before I felt it was time to point fingers. Take what lessons you can, get back on the bike and keep riding safely.
 

sidevalve

Über Member
Indication does NOT give the right to execute a manoeuvre It is at best a request and a warning to others [this applies to cyclists too]. It is ALWAYS up to the driver [and or rider] to make sure it is safe to execute that manoeuvre. However be aware of no matter how big you may be violence is 100% NOT repeat NOT the way to go. All it will do is to fudge the case if it ends up in court and you may well end up with a counter claim against you - anyone who advises otherwise [and there are always some] is either a fool or at best very misled. You did the right thing in remaining calm [ish].
One thing to note is that IF they were in front of you and indicating then why did you in effect undertake ? Unless they had zoomed past then slammed on the anchors and cut left [which is a clear case of careless and possibly dangerous driving] then you too might be held at least partially to blame. Pale Rider is correct you need facts.
 

Arrowfoot

Veteran
  • They turned into your path. You had right of way. Nothing to do with indicator on or off.
  • Make a report
  • In your report make sure mention the point that the second car was following the first as they appeared to be friends.
  • Follow User's advice including not being put off by this
 
I will leave others to comment on the rights & wrongs of cyclists and motorists.

I am just glad to hear that apart from a minor elbow injury and presumably damaged pride that you are essentially Ok.
This could obviously have been a whole lot worse and with a "new son" to care for and support put it down to a bad experience and learn from it.
Ride defensively at all times and assume that any vehicle that can 'hurt' you is potentially being driven by an idiot.:crazy:
More power to your elbow ! :bicycle:

Roy
 
The driver was wrong to move into you. I tend to ride along the right hand side of any slowing traffic near a left turn. It takes a bit of confidence to put yourself on that side, because you are then exposed to the oncoming traffic. I've found (through experience) that this is the lesser of two evils.
 

Cubist

Still wavin'
Location
Ovver 'thill
By law the driver must report the incident to the police within 24 hours if injury occurred and the police were not called at the time. Failure to do so is a criminal offence.

Clearly an injury occurred (your bruised and bloodied elbow). I'd pop into your local police station tomorrow and ask them to check that the incident has been reported. Even if you didn't get the reg number of the X5, the police should be able to identify the incident from the time, date and location.

If it hasn't been reported, I'd be tended to be bloody-minded and ask the police to pursue the driver for a failure to report.

And get well soon. Don't let this put you off commuting! Not all BMW drivers are a*seholes (at least I'm not) - though I will admit the X(whatever number) drivers tend to be... ;)
Nearly.

There is only a need to report the incident to the police if there was no one there to give details to. The best example of this would be where damage is caused to roadside furniture in the middle of the night, but of course in this case there was.

Depending on whether the driver of the vehicle that hit the OP offered to furnish details (index mark, name and address of driver, name and address of registered keeper, and in the case of an injury accident , their insurance details) they may have committed an offence of failing to stop AND furnish details.

As the OP was injured, he can demand to see insurance details. Once that request is made, the driver must either produce them there and then, or report the "accident" to a constable as soon as reasonably practicable, and in any case within 24 hours, and produce the insurance details either then, or within 7 days if details not to hand.

Otherwise, no one is under any obligation to report anything to the police.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/170
 

Cubist

Still wavin'
Location
Ovver 'thill
What I cannot recall is if they overtook me to get to the turn, or if I had cycled up to and alongside the X5 prior the event. I also do not remember seeing the X5 indicating but cannot be sure on this as it happened so quickly.
Unfortunately, whatever the rights and wrongs of what actually happened, this is the most important bit. Have no doubt that the drivers of both cars will say 1) she was indicating and 2) you moved up alongside as she did so.
My advice is, next time, don't ignore the witnesses....
 
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