Other two wheelers (with engines)

[Chilternrides]

Just curious about this - I'm not exactly twenty one any more, and have been using the roads in and on various vehicles for a long time now and have a few queries:

I'm keen to avoid stereotypes here, but would like to ask if you find that there is a common understanding between two-wheelers of whatever variety of the perceived perils we face, and the methods employed to avoid accidents or unnecessary confrontation?

What has prompted this is a series of conversations with a workmate who is a motorcycling fanatic. He comes in with tales very similar to the usual discussions or complaints we see on here daily, but this is the surprising bit; he has expressed that he generally "knows" what someone on two wheels is doing or about to do, but feels he can't trust anyone "in a box" (his term for a four, or more wheeled vehicle). That said, he does have some reservations; young lads on their first motorbikes in particular.

Even more surprising, this bloke is an out and out two-wheeled petrol head, yet he piped up last week saying that he would love to ride a bicycle, but hasn't got the confidence! (and his piles might play him up ).

So, does two-wheeled empathy exist in your collective experiences?

 

[BSRU]

The only problem motorised two wheelers I meet are the one's who have passed a CBT and then let loose on the public highway not knowing how to ride a motorbike properly.

 

[BentMikey]

Sometimes they're good, sometimes not. Just like "us" cyclists.

 

[ianrauk]

On a commuting level I find motorcyclists the same as car drivers and I treat them as such and seem to get treated the same from them as I would be from a motorcar driver.

There are some really excellent mortorcycle riders who empathise with the slower non engines 2 wheel version and give lot's of room, don't rev up behind you, stay out of asl's etc, and there are the one's who act like complete and utter tosspots.

When the bus lanes were originally given to motorcycles to use a while back, I did notice more close passes from motorcycles. But that does seemed to have calmed down a lot now. They are giving cyclists much more room.

 

[chillyuk]

I see a big difference between the kids on their £500 Chinese Ebay scooters and those on proper motorcycles. It is very rare I have an issue with a biker, but most of the pillocks on their scooters I call down all the demons of hell to sort them out.

I am a former biker by the way, so confess to an element of bias.

 

[Twizit]

I go with the comments that there are good and bad road users in all forms of transport, and it's a little unfair to stereotype. I should also add that I commute by cycle and motorbike depending on mood / weather / what I need to carry in on a particular day.

What I will say is that 6 years of riding a motorbike into London has definitely helped with my road safety to the extent that I rarely feel threatened when cycling in heavy traffic. I think it's the use of lifesavers hammered into my head when learning on the motorbike that really helps on the cycle - confess I do despair at the number of cyclists on the roads who never look around them before making manoeuvres - you know, the ones that put all their faith in other road users to anticipate just what they're about to do next and drive around them accordingly!

in answer to the OP, not sure empathy exists - perhaps between those good riders of 2 wheel vehicles, but there will always be bad examples of each who probably hate each other!

 

[captain nemo1701]

Sorry folks, but I'm bored in the office and couldn't resist this thread.....

PTW's can be a problem since they love to cut through in the cycle lanes but my biggest problem with them is their attitude towards the ASL. They seem to think its entirely put there for their convenience. I have been sworn at by bikers for not letting them into the ASL and they often ride through it to position themselves in front of you (RLJ-ing, by the way), revving the engine so that you get a lungful of fumes. I find their presence intimidating. As a health & safety professional, my general attitude to motorbikes in the ASL is that they shouldn't be there as they can accelerate rapidly and are simply stealing safety space from cyclists. Neither are PTW's a green form of transport as they are noisy and can pollute badly. Does London really need lots more of them?.

I live in Bristol but am working in London at present and continually see massive abuse of the cycling facilities by motorbikes especially the 'lawnmower-on-two-wheels' mob. It must really annoy London cyclists who are stuck behind in traffic while several motorbikes are squashed into the ASL. I saw a cyclist cut up by a biker last week in Waterloo. Cyclist following rules in ASL, biker just barges into it on red.

Both Boris and TFL always mention Bristol as being the example of how motorbikes in bus lanes can work. But they fail to realise that Bristol has a fraction of the population of London and thus lower numbers of PTW's. Frankly, I think it's a bad idea to let fast moving motorbikes to mix with slower cycles. It isn't a bed of roses in Bristol where in my experience, I've been overtaken on a number of occasions by speeding bikers, cut up, seen guys pull wheelies etc. Their worst habit is to filter down the outside of a traffic line and expect the ASL to be empty. Why should my safety and that of other cyclists be put at risk by someone on a machine that can do 0 to 60 in seconds?. I try my best to follow the law and ride sensibly as not only my safety is important, but I'm also an ambassador for cycling. Some motorcyclists are a mobile advert for why they should not be allowed in bus lanes.

I note that TFL and the motorbike industry have drawn up a code of conduct for motorbikes in bus lanes. This is both commendable and laughable at the same time as it will generally be ignored. For example, the 'deal' that Bristol City Council has with motorbikes in bus lanes is that they are only allowed in lanes which dispaly a white motorbike on a blue sign. Funny how many bikers can't seem to read 'Bus & Cycle Only' on signs and 4ft long letters on the road.

If the motorbikes fraternity can't respect the ASL, they should not be allowed in bus lanes. Boris and TFL need to stop sucking up to the motorbike lobby for votes and look whats happening in reality on the roads.

Rant over
Here's a gratuitous plug for my new youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.c...ainNemo1701#p/u

 

[nich]

Yep, I think there's quite a big overlap. Good motorcyclists and good cyclists will have very similar road awareness - road positioning, livesafers, breaking distances, taking into account weather conditions, pot holes, slippery drain covers etc

At work I got a motorcyclist into cycling last year, he's also got me into motorbikes, hence I did my CBT the other week and now have a scooter. I won't be coming into London on it yet though - the traffic lately on my route seems so bad that not even a scooter could make much progress, plus security seems a big issue in London, plus there's parking - guy at work the other day was real peev'd off as his motorbike had been scratched by another motorcyclist trying to use the same parking spot.

When out on the scooter I certainly get the impression that cyclists are vulnerable. Motorbikes are real heavy things, and can shift - I don't really want to get be anywhere near a cyclist on one - hence in some respects, I can see why motorbikes don't want to be sat behind lots of cyclists in an ASL.

 

[pshore]

If the motorbikes fraternity can't respect the ASL .....

Glossing over the fact that some motorcyclists are A-holes (as are an equal percentage of cyclists) .....

If you had a motorcycle and you were sensible, what would you do ? Would you:

a) Not filter because there is an ASL at the front.
Without the ability to filter, you take away a lot of the reason to own a motorcycle.

b) Filter as far as the front line and sit between queues of traffic.
This is dangerous and leaves you vulnerable to accidents as it does on a bicycle.

c) Filter and stop in front of queuing traffic.
This is where it is safe and motorcyclists have been doing this for all of time. Cyclists do the same for the same reason. The only difference is because cycles are slow to move off, ASL's were invented to legitimise the holding up of traffic while the rider moves off in safety.

 

[rugbyluke]

I'm a biker and a cyclist ( no car ) so I can see each others views. But to be honest everywhere you go there is good and bad cyclist, bikers, driver etc etc. All depends on the person

 

[Norm]

I have both, I'm crap at riding both and I'm generally the slowest in any group on bikes, whatever sort of carbs are in the fuel system.

Life goes on, enjoy it.

 

[ManiaMuse]

Generally fine.

Only thing that annoys me is that some of them are too desperate to get to the front of the queue at traffic lights.

 

[Twizit]

Generally fine.

Only thing that annoys me is that some of them are too desperate to get to the front of the queue at traffic lights.

and do you not find it's always the slowest ones who do this?! Winds me up no end

If there's one thing I like to do it's a quick get away from lights as I find it much safer.... even if I run out of puff a bit further down the road

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

Most proper motorcyclists are better road users than the average car driver IMO - they are the ones who appreciate their own vulnerability and their roadcraft improved through the need to be at a higher level of skill and awareness.

If they ride a 50cc with a Dominos box on the back then they are not even in the same class.

I've only ever "had a go" at one motorcyclist (for a bit of a close brush past and pulling in forcing me to brake and move to the side, mainly due to him being the last in a line of overtaking m/c's and being a bit over-eager, and deciding to abort an overtake and pull in to the gap between cars that I was occupying.

His response to my "If that were a car doing that to you.." was to lift his visor and apologise "if I gave you a bit of a scare" and we both wished each other a pleasant ride.

Was a silly move, nothing more, and didn't end up in the usual "turn the air blue" exchange that usually ensues with the occupants of cars.

 

[BentMikey]

Apols to those who've seen this before, but here's an example of a crap rider:


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSiCfvaAmSg