Out of the saddle

[Yellow Saddle]

I don't think so. Your physiology doesn't change as your ability improves. The definition of strength within exercise physiology is generally defined as your maximum force exertion at 1RM. So by that definition, strength is not a limiter in hill climbing, or any other branch of endurance cycling really.

I don't like the 1RM definition but prefer the definition of "predominantly ATP-fuelled movement".
Whether it improves your performance or not. strength is what lets you climb seated more comfortably.
I've added a part about "jumping" to my earlier post.

 

[Ihatehills]

Well it depends how long the hill is. Shorter relatively anaerobic efforts (so for me maybe a couple of minutes) and out of the saddle is definitely quicker. But I can't keep that effort up for long so hills of more than a couple of minutes and I will climb seated. I'll often do the first couple of minutes of a longer climb out of the saddle then seated for the rest of it too

^ this, if i can make it to the top climbing out of the saddle without running out of gas i will every time, it doesn't take a very long hill to make this not possible for me though . That said, I have made a conscious effort to climb seated before and it did surprise me that there was very little difference in my segment times but i still prefer to stand.

 

[S-Express]

I don't like the 1RM definition but prefer the definition of "predominantly ATP-fuelled movement".

You might prefer it, but that is simply not a definition of strength in any meaningful sense.

Whether it improves your performance or not. strength is what lets you climb seated more comfortably.

Interested why you think this - because it is fundamentally incorrect. Can you explain?

 

[Dogtrousers]

Don't worry about it. If it works for you then cool. I never honk, cos that's what works for me

The reason that the likes of you and me* don't ride out of the saddle is because of the time and effort taken to haul ourselves up, and the stresses on the frame when we eventually land back on the saddle.

* I mean larger gentlemen, not idiots.

 

[thunderlips76]

Yeah strength would relate more to sprinting and explosive effort, this is where I think my mind set is as I used to be a track sprinter in my youth.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

You might prefer it, but that is simply not a definition of strength in any meaningful sense.



Interested why you think this - because it is fundamentally incorrect. Can you explain?

My (personal) definition helps you identify the exercises that are strength-based and the ones which are not. Loosely, aerobic and anaerobic exercises are not. I'm no exercise physiologist, so I can only state what I prefer, not what I propose.

In my latter years of competition I used the system of periodisation, and particularly Joe Friel's method of periodisation, as optimised for cycling. IIRC (I no longer have a copy of "the bible", maybe someone else has and can chip in), Friel recommended these strength exercises for us ectomorphs:

http://www.trainingbible.com/bkp-all/pdf/Cycling_Strength_Program.pdf

Again, IIRC, the idea was to strengthen the connection between muscle groups/body parts required for, amongst other things, hard seated climbing where you are required to pull hard on the bars to push hard on the pedals. This required more fast-twitch muscles which could only be conditioned with strength training.

What is your take on getting someone to pedal easier from seated?

 

[S-Express]

What is your take on getting someone to pedal easier from seated?

Regardless of whether you are seated or standing, improving climbing performance is all about improving your sustainable aerobic power in relation to your weight.

You can either focus on doing this from a seated position, in which case your body will adapt to the demands placed on it in that position - or you can do it from a standing position, in which case your body will adapt to those demands instead. Most riders do both, and so become competent at both.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Regardless of whether you are seated or standing, improving climbing performance is all about improving your sustainable aerobic power in relation to your weight.

You can either focus on doing this from a seated position, in which case your body will adapt to the demands placed on it in that position - or you can do it from a standing position, in which case your body will adapt to those demands instead. Most riders do both, and so become competent at both.

Just about every bit of cycling the OP does is aerobic, I'd guess. So improving aerobic capacity will help with everything he does.

But to attempt to work at aerobic improvement when you don't have the strength to hold the position required for seated climbing, is not optimal. Some people are just too weak to grind away. It is fashionable to talk about core strength and I think there's some merit in that. Without a strong link between your arms and abs on the one end, and your powerful glutes, quads and hammies, on the other, aerobic ability won't help much. Hence the exercises that stress linked groups.

Anyway, I'll bow out (not in a get-a-last-word way), but I'm out of my depth when it comes to exercise physiology and only mastered the rudimentary elements. I no longer have a copy of The Training Bible either, so I'm going back on shaky memory.

 

[S-Express]

But to attempt to work at aerobic improvement when you don't have the strength to hold the position required for seated climbing, is not optimal. Some people are just too weak to grind away. It is fashionable to talk about core strength and I think there's some merit in that. Without a strong link between your arms and abs on the one end, and your powerful glutes, quads and hammies, on the other, aerobic ability won't help much. Hence the exercises that stress linked groups.

Certainly - being 'strong enough' to ride a bike is always a good start for any aspiring cyclist. However, I would suggest that anyone not strong enough to hold their position on a bike probably (certainly) has bigger problems that climbing. Everyone else who 'is' strong enough will find that their muscles adapt to the demands placed upon them pretty quickly. That's what 'training' and 'exercise' is all about.

 

[Rooster1]

I only stand on really steep inclines and I can't do it for prolonged periods, maybe two minutes or so at a time. Less is more in my book.

 

[MikeG]

...... I have made a conscious effort to climb seated before and it did surprise me that there was very little difference in my segment times but i still prefer to stand.

I didn't win my club's open hill climb because my chain came off 10 seconds into the climb. However, I went back the following day and had myself timed doing the same course, and without the adrenalin of the competition and the cow bells from the packed hillside I still came within 3 seconds of the winner's time..........seated the whole way. He stood up the whole way, and he was some 30 years younger than me. Sitting and spinning a lower gear is NOT the slow option that people have imagined for years.

 

[S-Express]

Sitting and spinning a lower gear is NOT the slow option that people have imagined for years.

Has it ever been regarded that way?

 

[Drago]

The reason that the likes of you and me* don't ride out of the saddle is because of the time and effort taken to haul ourselves up, and the stresses on the frame when we eventually land back on the saddle.

* I mean larger gentlemen, not idiots.

Compared to squatting twice my lard, I mean bodyweight, climbing a mere hill is quite restful on the old pins. My lungs leap out my mouth and lay twitching on the road long before my mighty legs of manliness run out of grunt.

 

[MikeG]

Has it ever been regarded that way?

Yep. On here, amongst other places. I got severely sneered at a couple of years ago for making the same point.

 

[S-Express]

Yep. On here, amongst other places. I got severely sneered at a couple of years ago for making the same point.

Seems odd that some would struggle with the concept of whoever is making the most w/kg (regardless whether seated or standing) will go the quickest uphill.