pedals/shoes dilemma - what to do

[domtyler]

But what's the main advantage of them? And don't say power, 'cos I know that that isn't true. You see, as yet I remain unconvinced, but I am prepared to BE convinced.

The main advantage is a far more positive engagement with the pedal, combined with a much stiffer sole. They are not primarily designed to be walked in or for frequent clipping in and out. This has given the designers the freedom to make a pedal system that is about one thing, greater efficiency in the transfer of power from rider to bike.

That said, I use SPD-SLs for a twice a day commute into the City and back every day through some of the busiest, most congested roads you could imagine, and on a fixie too. At first you might say that is madness. What I say back is that, yes, there are skills to be learned, equipment to be gotten used to. But, once over the initial beginner phase it just comes into its own and starts to make so much sense. My bike and this pedal system sees me as consistently the fastest rider on that road, easily. I was beaten for pace the other day for the first time in over a year, and I put that down to the bike and pedals largely.

Of course it's not just on the open road that you can make good time, it is cutting through heavy traffic. Having such a positive connection to the bike allows the rider to gain extremely fine control over speed and position allowing the narrowest of gaps to be sped through, shaving minutes off each commute.

Of course once you get to work you will have to walk at least a short distance, with SPD-SLs this is no problem. The tough rubber walking pads make walking easy. And no mucking about having to put plastic covers on either, just unclip and go.

 

[domtyler]

That is the main advantage. How can a flexible sole be as efficient in transferring power than a rigid sole? HOWEVER, as I said above, it's not really worth fussing over unless you absolutely need that extra 5%-10%.

Remember, that extra 10% may not sound much, but in commuting terms that translates to real minutes every trip, hours every week, possibly hundreds of hours every year of extra time for doing other stuff.

 

[bonj2]

Remember, that extra 10% may not sound much, but in commuting terms that translates to real minutes every trip, hours every week, possibly hundreds of hours every year of extra time for doing other stuff.

10%?! Hmm... if it literally is 10%, then that's obviously worth having, I almost thought Chuffy was making a thinly veiled endorsement of them.
Now I know most people can only really say "well I've got xxx and I really like them", and rightly so - but say I was to be sold on the idea, what sort would I go for...
My main criteria in order are, 1) comfort, 2) easy to clip in / nice positive 'click', 3) durability, 4) everything else, e.g. power, weight, price.
My preconceptions from scouting around the net and reading between the lines, are:
Time RXS - infinitely adjustable and comfortable for people with knee problems, but fiddly and annoying to get right if you just want them to work and don't want lots of different degrees of float.
Look KEO - simple and easy to use but no special features
Shimano SPD-SL - good all-rounder
From that it looks like look are in the lead - but like I say they are only preconceptions, so please put me right if any of the above is wrong.
Also please rate them on walkability stakes, or are they all relatively walkable (I would only need to be able to walk a few yards on concrete per 25 miles of cycling, so not that important, but important for it to not be totally impossible)

 

[Chuffy]

Remember, that extra 10% may not sound much, but in commuting terms that translates to real minutes every trip, hours every week, possibly hundreds of hours every year of extra time for doing other stuff.

You know it never quite works out like that. It just looks good on paper. That couple of minutes off my commute would just leave me sweatier and more knackered from trying to live up to my shoes. But if it bothers you, enjoy...

 

[bonj2]

it's comfort really though, for me.

 

[Danny]

it's comfort really though, for me.

And me. So why don't you start with working out which shoes you will be most comfortable with and then fit the pedals that work best with those shoes.

I personally wouldn't spend too much time worrying about whether a particular pair of shoes would shave a minute off my daily commute.

 

[bonj2]

because having a bigger platform MAY increase comfort by having less pressure on the foot. Mainly get it when standing.

 

[Danny]

In which case I would stick with wider pedals and MTB type shoes, both are likely to be more comfortable than the pure road versions.

And I would apply the normal Bonj degree of scepticism to claims that a change to road shoes will result in a 10% increase in efficiency. Even if there is some way of proving this in lab conditions there are so many other factors to consider when you are riding in the real world (tyres, wheels, traffic, wind, road surface, etc etc) that few riders are going to see such a big improvement.

 

[djmc]

I've used Time Atacs on the road for a long time. They are easy to get in and out of even if very muddy, give a good degree of float, and give a larger platform than SPDs. If you use shoes designed for cyclocross these will be almost as stiff as road racing shoes. Even on the road it is useful not to walk like a duck the moment you get of the bike.

 

[domtyler]

In which case I would stick with wider pedals and MTB type shoes, both are likely to be more comfortable than the pure road versions.

And I would apply the normal Bonj degree of scepticism to claims that a change to road shoes will result in a 10% increase in efficiency. Even if there is some way of proving this in lab conditions there are so many other factors to consider when you are riding in the real world (tyres, wheels, traffic, wind, road surface, etc etc) that few riders are going to see such a big improvement.

Have you ever actually used road pedals Danny?

 

[Danny]

I have, but am quite prepared to admit I have not used them extensively. The reason being is that the road shoes I was using were too narrow and un-giving for my very wide feet. Hence my remarks to Bonj about comfort.

I am more than happy to accept that road pedals are more efficient - I am just a bit sceptical about claims that they are x% more efficient. If Bonj is regularly going in for time trials then sure he would want the extra efficiency. But if you are just riding for pleasure I would put comfort over efficiency.

 

[bonj2]

I have, but am quite prepared to admit I have not used them extensively. The reason being is that the road shoes I was using were too narrow and un-giving for my very wide feet. Hence my remarks to Bonj about comfort.

I am more than happy to accept that road pedals are more efficient - I am just a bit sceptical about claims that they are x% more efficient. If Bonj is regularly going in for time trials then sure he would want the extra efficiency. But if you are just riding for pleasure I would put comfort over efficiency.

So the reasoning behind your theory that "mtb pedals are more comfortable" stems from the fact that you tried some, and the road shoes were uncomfortable. Well I'm sorry but I don't think that's a very impartial test at all.

I don't think having road shoes and road pedals for commuting is going to cause me any significant problems, and it might give advantages which are significant enough for me to like, so I'm going to give it a try. I don't know what road shoes I want to get yet but don't want to spend a lot, I might have a look in decathlon, don't normally rate them but don't really see how they can go far wrong with shoes, as long as I can try them on and they're comfy.
FWIW the rest of the solution involves:
put the time atacs on the MTB and try and flog the PDM424s, M520s and probably also the V12s on ebay. I've contacted specialized to try and get a replacement cleat bolt plate and had an email back from them saying they don't keep them but he would 'keep an eye out' for one for me. If one doesn't come in a few weeks then I'll go to a metalwork fabricators with the other one and ask them to replicate it. Can't be hard, probably won't cost more than a fiver.

 

[bonj2]

I am more than happy to accept that road pedals are more efficient - I am just a bit sceptical about claims that they are x% more efficient. If Bonj is regularly going in for time trials then sure he would want the extra efficiency. But if you are just riding for pleasure I would put comfort over efficiency.

however I do agree with your scepticism of 10% claims tbh, I too am sceptical of any definite quantitative claims as there are so many other variables.
But if it IS 10%, then on the journey to work that's 10 minutes.

 

[bonj2]

point is though Danny, there seems to be quite a wide range of shoes available, e.g. wider than the range of pedals. I'm sure if you hunted around and were prepared to pay a bit more, you could get some for wider feet.

 

[Abitrary]

This is the problem with clipless pedals; it's just too much to think about.

Use straps and clips on the road bike, they feel better. Do what you need to do with the MTB.

Remember, the double bike / pedal matrix has blown the minds of many good men.