Pedestrians

[Digital_Cowboy]

[QUOTE 1484602"]
It's your responsibility not to ride into pedestrians. You've already given one example where you've not accepted this responsibility because you wanted to make headway, and you rode into a pedestrian when you could have stopped. That makes you, just you, more of a hazard than you need to be. Your attitude and riding can be seen to be irresponsible, regardless of what anyone else is doing. So at your level of competency the predictability of others is irrelevant.

I suggest that you sort yourself out first, as that which you have most influence over, rather than deferring responsibility to others.
[/quote]

Agreed, it is a cyclists responsibility not to run/ride into anyone.

No, I did NOT run into her SHE ran into me. As SHE was moving faster than I was. I ride through the parks EVERYDAY of the week around I don't know how many people. I have attended the First Friday concert in Downtown St. Pete with hundreds of people, I have attended New's Year Eve and Fourth of July fireworks with hundreds IF not thousands of people and never had one conflict.

This one time one gal ran/walked into me. How is that my fault that she ran into me? She was going faster than I was, I was going slow, being as careful as I could. As if I had stopped the people behind me would have run into me. Would that have been better?

 

[Digital_Cowboy]

I'm glad I live in a country where I can walk across the street just where and when I feel like it.
PS. As a car driver and cyclist, I am perfectly happy to take care not to hit pedestrians who are exercising that right. I will cuss out teenagers (who should know better) who deliberately jump into the road to make me stop, but it is my responsibility to STOP.


But you didn't, 'cos you wanted to "make headway". That is irresponsible cycling.

No you didn't, you did not stop

This is new!! So you suddenly remember these people "walking" up behind you?
Re. All of the bolded text: Some discrepancy here surely? The "gal walked" into him - faster than he was going, and the people who were suddenly catching up frombehind would have "walked" into hi, yet he was going at 5 - 6 mph and couldn't stop?
Some real good speed-walkers over the pond there!

No, no "discrepancy," I just hadn't given the incident much thought. But the more that I think about it, the more details that I remember.

And yes, there are, as I have said before it is very common to see people walking down the sidewalk/pavement listening to an iPod at such a loud volume that it can be heard several feet behind them and for several feet after passing them. Or they have their eyes glued on their cell/mobile texting or talking.

Yesterday I stopped at a store (Amscot) to get a money order there was a gal at the counter talking away on her cell/mobile phone as if she was at home. There was another woman there with her children sitting in the chairs again talking on her cell/mobile phone as if she was the only one there.

Then when I was on my ride, I was in the street and there were two women walking in the opposite direction on the sidewalk/pavement, eyes glued to their cell/mobile phones texting, one was also walking a dog.

Yes, there are, as sadly way too many people in this country "are in a hurry to get nowhere fast." So much so that one would get the impression that it would actually "kill" them if they were to leave for their appointments with enough time to get there in case of detour/breakdown.

The most common close call that I have while riding is at intersections where a driver swoops around me to beat me to the stop light. Yes, they are "racing me" for want of a better word to stop.

 

[Digital_Cowboy]

DC is simply one those cyclists who believes that he has a god given right to cycle where he wants, when he wants. I hate people like that.

No, I am not. How many times do I have to tell you that I am about the only cyclist who when riding through the parks slows down when they encounter people?

Yesterday when I was finishing up my ride getting ready to leave one of the parks a small puppy ran on to the sidewalk into my path. If I had been going any faster I would not have had time to stop to avoid hitting it. When I encounter a parent with a small child, and the parent tells their children to watch out for the bicycle. I let them know that I am looking out for them (the children and dogs) and that I have good brakes. And we usually end up joking about the other cyclists who go riding through the park(s) as if they're running the TdF.

If I rode like you are claiming that I rode wouldn't I be hitting pedestrians left and right on a daily basis? Wouldn't I have close calls with pedestrias on a daily basis? I do not because when I am around people out riding I slow down, unlike a lot (it almost seems the majority) of cyclists who are riding through the park at full speed.

When I am out riding and I'm on the one sidewalk that I routinely ride on, if there are too many people on it in front of me I'll "jump" off of the sidewalk and return to the street. Even if there isn't a wheelchair accessible ramp nearby that I can use. I would rather risk doing damage to my bike or causing myself injury than risk injuring someone who is walking in front of me.

Does that sounds like the actions of someone who feels as if they have the "right" to ride anywhere, at anytime that they want? If you actually saw me out riding you would see how safe and careful of a rider that I am.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

No, I am not. How many times do I have to tell you that I am about the only cyclist who when riding through the parks slows down when they encounter people?

Yesterday when I was finishing up my ride getting ready to leave one of the parks a small puppy ran on to the sidewalk into my path. If I had been going any faster I would not have had time to stop to avoid hitting it. When I encounter a parent with a small child, and the parent tells their children to watch out for the bicycle. I let them know that I am looking out for them (the children and dogs) and that I have good brakes. And we usually end up joking about the other cyclists who go riding through the park(s) as if they're running the TdF.

If I rode like you are claiming that I rode wouldn't I be hitting pedestrians left and right on a daily basis? Wouldn't I have close calls with pedestrias on a daily basis? I do not because when I am around people out riding I slow down, unlike a lot (it almost seems the majority) of cyclists who are riding through the park at full speed.

When I am out riding and I'm on the one sidewalk that I routinely ride on, if there are too many people on it in front of me I'll "jump" off of the sidewalk and return to the street. Even if there isn't a wheelchair accessible ramp nearby that I can use. I would rather risk doing damage to my bike or causing myself injury than risk injuring someone who is walking in front of me.

Does that sounds like the actions of someone who feels as if they have the "right" to ride anywhere, at anytime that they want? If you actually saw me out riding you would see how safe and careful of a rider that I am.

Well your comments thus far paint a very different picture I assure you.

 

[Digital_Cowboy]

I think if a pedestrian stepped into the road, or a cycle lane on a road, and there was no possibility of avoiding a collision, the cyclist would not be at fault (assuming they were cycling at a reasonable speed for the road). The same would apply to a motor vehicle, again if they were under the speed limit.

If a pedestrian steps into the road, or a cycle lane on a road, and there is time to avoid them, but the cyclist rides into them anyway, then the cyclist is at fault.

Pedestrians have the right to cross the road where they want, but obviously shouldn't go throwing themselves into moving traffic.

Sadly, way too many seem to think that they have that "right." And they expect motorists/cyclists to lock up their brakes and avoid hitting them.

 

[Digital_Cowboy]

Oops, sorry, I meant this one.


Ah, OK, I guess the answer, then, is that there are indeed no places that are exclusively for the use of bicycles. (At least not in any way that absolves them of responsibility.)


Again, it comes down, IMHO, to the points that I made in the earlier post. The person bringing the greater risk to the space should be prepared to take the bulk of the responsibility.

Agreed, and if it is the pedestrian that is bringing the risk then they need to take responsibility for their actions. No one group should be given total "autonomy" over another group.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Agreed, and if it is the pedestrian that is bringing the risk then they need to take responsibility for their actions. No one group should be given total "autonomy" over another group.

Think of it this way. The larger and more powerful a vehicle the greater the care the driver/rider needs to take

 

[400bhp]

[QUOTE 1484171"]
I couldn't disagree more.



[/quote]

+1

We should understand more than anyone about being considerate in the surroundings.

 

[Digital_Cowboy]

You mean like not making sure you give a pedestrian enough room and pass them at a safe speed?

The default position is that paths are for pedestrians. If they wander around erratically they're not much of a danger to each other. The risk is tiny.
Cyclists are allowed to use the paths, as long as they do not increase the risks to pedestrians that they already pose to each other.

Cyclists are bringing the risk, so it is for cyclists to modify their behaviour to minimise that risk, not for the pedestrians to modify theirs. If a pedestrian suddenly changes direction without looking and you collide with them, then you were too close or too fast.

The only situation where I can imagine a collision being unavoidable is if the pedestrian deliberately hurls themselves into the path of the bicycle from behind a tree or something.

Are you trying to say that you've never seen/heard of that happening? I guess maybe over there, there aren't as many people who have their heads up their fourth point of contact, i.e. lost in their cell/mobile phone or are listening to their iPods at such a volume that they can't hear anything around them.

A couple of years ago when I was going to the library I saw a woman get off of a bus. Talking on her cell/mobile phone and just step off of the curb without looking. Fortunately I had enough room between her and the curb to be able to avoid hitting her. Had I been a car or a motorcycle she'd either be dead or I would have clipped her.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

+1

We should understand more than anyone about being considerate in the surroundings.

+1

 

[400bhp]

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNa_AQ5o51M&feature=youtu.be


Owned

 

[Digital_Cowboy]

It's been tried a couple of times: google for "naked streets" or "shared streets". I am not altogether convinced it works as well as its proponents says: the average taxi driver at Seven Dials in my experience tends to put his foot down and gun the engine rather than make eye contact and amicably negotiate priority with the pedestrians in his path, but perhaps it just needs to be backed up with legislation that makes "scaring the shoot out of people" an arrestable offence

Actually in Los Angeles, California it is. They just passed a law making it an offense to harass cyclists.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Are you trying to say that you've never seen/heard of that happening? I guess maybe over there, there aren't as many people who have their heads up their fourth point of contact, i.e. lost in their cell/mobile phone or are listening to their iPods at such a volume that they can't hear anything around them.

A couple of years ago when I was going to the library I saw a woman get off of a bus. Talking on her cell/mobile phone and just step off of the curb without looking. Fortunately I had enough room between her and the curb to be able to avoid hitting her. Had I been a car or a motorcycle she'd either be dead or I would have clipped her.

By the sound of it the U.S of A is heading for a fall comparable with that of the Roman Empire. The way you describe the country it is full of idiots who can not think for themselves and who possess suicidal tendancies.

 

[Digital_Cowboy]

Not meaning to interrupt or detract from the discussion, but what a great phrase! Salmon cyclist. Love it.

Thank you, we also use the phrase "ninja cyclist" for someone who rides without lights or reflectors, as well as a combined ninja-salmon. About the only riding style we haven't come up with a phrase for are those who regularly ride on the sidewalk/pavement and the road.

 

[Digital_Cowboy]

I love waving pedestrians across when I'm driving the lorry. Most people seem really tickled that something 16' high and 60' long with a bend in the middle has stopped (with a satisfying hiss of air brakes) to let them cross. It always seems to make people happy.

I too when out riding will stop and wave pedestrians on their way. And it is surprising how many are surprised that someone stopped to allow them to cross.