This has to rate as the best post so far!Wow.
39 pages for such a simple concept.
There are no public areas that I could cycle in the UK without peds / dog walkers having equal rights.
On a bike, I would be expected to give way to the above (ie cycle very slowly near people and either not cycle or effectively push with 1 leg as Lee described when young kids / dogs are around).
My answer is - I ride on the road
It's really not complicated. I can't believe it's generated 39 pages of the obvious.
Clearly the law is different in the US where the car is king and no-one would consider walking or cycling somewhere a mile or so away as a sane option. (In my experience)
Hence the Jay walking laws/ hence the extra anti-cycling/ped thinking among US drivers and planners/ hence the anti non-cyclists by Digital Cowboy. They're a continuum of unpleasantness.
At least we have the rudiments of a sensible hierarchy of provision in the UK - with the most dangerous taking the most responsibility.
Of course in even more enlightened European countries this goes further, towards actual legal liability.
In the US it clearly doesn't - which is a shame.
Weird, part of that sounds almost like "Can't you see I'm right and you're wrong, why do people even bother discussing this?"Wow.
39 pages for such a simple concept.
There are no public areas that I could cycle in the UK without peds / dog walkers having equal rights.
On a bike, I would be expected to give way to the above (ie cycle very slowly near people and either not cycle or effectively push with 1 leg as Lee described when young kids / dogs are around).
My answer is - I ride on the road
It's really not complicated. I can't believe it's generated 39 pages of the obvious.
Clearly the law is different in the US where the car is king and no-one would consider walking or cycling somewhere a mile or so away as a sane option. (In my experience)
Hence the Jay walking laws/ hence the extra anti-cycling/ped thinking among US drivers and planners/ hence the anti non-cyclists by Digital Cowboy. They're a continuum of unpleasantness.
At least we have the rudiments of a sensible hierarchy of provision in the UK - with the most dangerous taking the most responsibility.
Of course in even more enlightened European countries this goes further, towards actual legal liability.
In the US it clearly doesn't - which is a shame.
Lets see, points brought up so far:
So basically you're saying as soon as you're on a bicycle you become responsible for irresponsible behaviour of pedestrians? It doesn't matter how old you are or how fast you're riding and how erratically the pedestrian is behaving, it's always your fault?
Well, anyone who behaves irresponsibly ought to be held liable for the consequences of their irresponsible actions, irrespective of their mode of transport, but that statement changes nothing. The problem we are having here is around the definition of "irresponsible". For pedestrians, changing direction unpredictably, without signalling or checking mirrors (nor even doing a shoulder check) is not normally irresponsible because it really does not pose any danger to anyone in the absence of a bicycle or motor vehicle. Neither is emerging from behind an obstacle or round a corner, stopping suddenly, stepping suddenly to the side, etc. It is the bringing of those machines into the scenario that creates the risks and therefore carries the bulk of the responsibility. If you ride a bicycle among pedestrians, then your riding should take account of the fact that pedestrian movements can be unpredictable (or even "erratic"); that's all I'm saying.
I find myself agreeing with almost everything you've said on this thread. I don't think I would knowingly leave the front door of my house unlocked when I go out, though. If the house was burgled I would feel it was partly my fault since I am capable of anticipating that there are thieves and vagabonds in this country who may steal my property. It would almost certainly be the burglar's fault but given that the security of my home is primarily mine (oh and my wife's a bit) I would feel responsible also. I would like to go out without always having to worry about checking all the doors and windows, but I feel as though I can't rely on other people acting honestly.
As a foreigner in Finland (Malmo, I think it was), I didn't notice the paint on the pavement and strayed onto the cycle part when waiting for some other people to come out of the hotel. I had to leap to safety when a couple of cyclists came along the path at high speed. So I'm not sure it's really that safe.
I was agreeing with you and attempting to reinforce your point with an analogous text.
Well, they're grown up now, but yes, of course I took responsibility for their safety when they were little. (In fact, I do still worry a bit about my 24 year old daughter's cycling because I think she cycles too near the edge of the road and doesn't claim the lane nearly enough, but all I can do is point to the relevant advice.)
. Excuse - It's raining outside (why do people say outside?) and I'm about to go out on a 12 mile ride and am not looking forward to it much - distracted!
