Petition for law change - Ebike Assist Limit

[youngoldbloke]

Starting to think this thread has run its course

Some parting thoughts:

If your current ebike isn't fast enough, buy a Speed Pedelec and take on the admin of doing so, just keep off our protected (as it is!) infrastructure.

Toodle pip!

I'm happy to avoid most of the unsuitable and inadequate infrastructure anyway - if I do have to use it I ride with due consideration to the conditions and to other users.

 

[ozboz]

There is an ebike shop in Twickenham, some of the bikes look very impressive, especially the MTB’s , I am considering a cargo style ebike to get my tools and stuff around , a lot cheaper tha a van and can get around London ok , there is a German make that looks good , but it does depend on me staying in London

 

[Scaleyback]

There is now 400 signatories on the petition, which far outweighs the 20+ anti speed increase poster on this thread.....

Sadly, I guess like most petitions and indeed referendums many (most?) voters are taking 'the personal view' i.e how does this affect me? and you could justly argue 'of course, why wouldn't I' ? Why I have said I don't believe the assist level should be raised that is not based on the personal effect on me. (Who is going to be the 1st to accuse me of claiming the ' moral high ground' ? ) It makes no difference whatsoever to me. However, I do not believe the long term prospects and growth of e-biking will be enhanced by raising the assist level. I do believe if it was to happen it will eventually result in more draconian legislation that will benefit no one.

 

[Venod]

Over my cycling career, riding partners have come and gone, but we're still mates.
I don't think the answer to all this is an arms race for the ebiker to add more watts until they can keep up.

I can only quote from my own experience here and give you my thoughts why 15.6 mph is too low, I know you can pedal above this speed but old age and infirmity limit this.

When the Avocet computer appeared in the early eighties,we used it on club runs to keep the speed about 18 mph this was a good group riding speed and IMO still is today, most riders I rode with in those days can still keep these speeds up today, but one or two have dropped to slower groups which is perfectly natural when you cant keep up, but with modern technology we have a solution that would enable them to still ride with their old mates, this requires an higher assisted speed than 15.6 mph above which they would struggle.

In my experience (I know it wont be everyone's) most people ride between 16 to 20 mph average, just above the cut off for ebikes, so a 20 mph cut off makes sense to me.

Lifting the limit won't stop anybody on a normal bike cycling, but it will enhance a lot of peoples enjoyment of ebike's.

Lets embrace the technology and make it work for all cyclists.

I don't own an ebike, but never say never, I am fortunate enough to still be able to average 18 mph on a normal bike.

 

[snorri]

I've read there are considerable problems in the normally fairly sedate Copenhagen and Amsterdam with ebikers trying to weave themselves into regular cyclist traffic.

It was as a result of experiences during tours in mainland Europe that caused me to be opposed to supporting the petition.

 

[jowwy]

Okay, I think I get your meaning now.
Would that be like setting up the motor so that it delivered a preset level of assistance as a factor of the rider's input? I can see the attraction of that but still think you'd need to have either an assistance cut off point or a maximum permitted speed for the vehicle.

They do deliver a preset level of assistance now, but that’s the part I would personally limit.....I don’t require 260% assistance, so that’s we’re i would start the limiting process, as speeds over 15.6mph can be done....IF and I do say IF your fit and capable enough to do so

 

[fossyant]

It enables a guy I know to take his 'non-cyclist' wife out on 30-40 miles rides having an e-bike.

The only issue I see, is the speed increase to 20 mph, could put in-experienced cyclists in a different 'ball game' with speed and reaction times. I had enough issues on my fixie that was speed limited, that drivers didn't judge my speed, full lycra and I wasn't able to go as fast had I been geared, but no-one thought I was still going 20-25mph usually. Someone might see a 'dutch' style bike and think it's slow, but it's bombing along at 20 mph.

Even now I'm not fit as I was, I can still move my big trail bike along quicker than 15mph on a flat road, but putting 20 mph into the mix on a 'sit up and beg', will catch many more drivers out. Don't forget, drivers see bikes as slow, hence many of my issues with getting cut up in the past - 'it's a bike, I'll pull out' - I could deal with that being experienced, but an inexperienced cyclist doing 20 mph, where they would normally do 10, could be problematic.

 

[winjim]

Hang on, are people suggesting increasing assistance as a function of power input? Surely that's the wrong way round - weaker riders need more help, not less. Isn't that the point of an ebike?

 

[Scaleyback]

Of course we have to thank EU Harmonisation (28-01-2016) for our current e-bike legislation. After Brexit (if it ever happens)
I guess people opposed to the current assist level can see a ray of hope ?

UK ebike law - Updated 28-01-2016
The UK electric bike industry and the Department for Transport have long recognised these 1983 UK regulations to be antiquated. In practice, UK police enforce the standards set by the EU’s EN15194. The EN15194 regulations stipulate that e-bikes may:


Be fitted with a motor with a power of no more than 250w
Provide a maximum assisted speed (i.e. the speed at which motor assistance is automatically cut off) of no more than 25 kmph (roughly 15.5 mph)
Not be fitted with a full speed throttle that can work ‘independently’ (that is without the pedals ‘moving forward’). Start Up Assist throttles (those that assist up to 6 km/h) are allowed
Be ridden without any minimum age limit

 

[fossyant]

Hang on, are people suggesting increasing assistance as a function of power input? Surely that's the wrong way round - weaker riders need more help, not less. Isn't that the point of an ebike?

It's how the e-MTB's work until the limit, but without massive power needed. They 'assist', but they put in a stack more power than the individual can. I've seen young lads using them. The argument is they get to the top quick, so they can do the down hill, then do a few more runs, before 'mortals' complete maybe 2 runs, compared to their 4. It certainly cuts down climbing time by half or a third (that's with current limits).

 

[Scaleyback]

It enables a guy I know to take his 'non-cyclist' wife out on 30-40 miles rides having an e-bike.

The only issue I see, is the speed increase to 20 mph, could put in-experienced cyclists in a different 'ball game' with speed and reaction times. I had enough issues on my fixie that was speed limited, that drivers didn't judge my speed, full lycra and I wasn't able to go as fast had I been geared, but no-one thought I was still going 20-25mph usually. Someone might see a 'dutch' style bike and think it's slow, but it's bombing along at 20 mph.

Even now I'm not fit as I was, I can still move my big trail bike along quicker than 15mph on a flat road, but putting 20 mph into the mix on a 'sit up and beg', will catch many more drivers out. Don't forget, drivers see bikes as slow, hence many of my issues with getting cut up in the past - 'it's a bike, I'll pull out' - I could deal with that being experienced, but an inexperienced cyclist doing 20 mph, where they would normally do 10, could be problematic.

Oh so true.

 

[fossyant]

PS - down side is, the motors aren't half as reliable as made out - known quite a few riders that bikes broke (MTB's) - OK condition's aren't great for any bike, but it's a serious amount of cash for the motor to pack in due to 'crap' - which is what MTB's live in.

 

[jowwy]

Hang on, are people suggesting increasing assistance as a function of power input? Surely that's the wrong way round - weaker riders need more help, not less. Isn't that the point of an ebike?

Yes....e bikes work by upping the power I rider can input their self by a % increase....my ebike works as fellows

Eco = 50% extra
Tour = 100% extra
Sport = 180% extra
Turbo = 260% extra....

Up to the cut off speed of 15.6mph, above that speed there is no input from the motor and only leg power.

 

[fossyant]

I'm not so sure how the 'assist' works on the e-MTB's. I fair few of us will know we've put in our own 'leg' watts' pushing in excess of 500w, then an e-biker, flies past at double their speed. There is some power going through when a rider presses on. The steep stuff really shows the difference, not just the long drags.

 

[fossyant]

260% extra power, flip me, no wonder, 100% more puts the rider in elite level over a club rider...