Planning! Every last detail or not?

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mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
Sometimes that's the most fun! So long as you're not rushing for a train, plane or boat!

That's very true. But there's a lot of people who would baulk at the weight. It's all horses for courses.
But, I would like to hear from those who travel without the extra gear, for example cooking kit & food and do they feel that they are losing out on opportunities?


My panniers are full enough without adding else! :smile:

i don't really think i carry that much weight really - maybe 12kg max - thats including food - but because i also do a fair amount of multi-day backpacking trips - my gear is already very light - i'm constantly amazed by how much 'stuff' some cycle tourers seem to be carrying - especially when i then discover that they aren't even camping.
 

jay clock

Massive member
Location
Hampshire UK
the only thing that pisses me off is people with a strong view of what is right. Touring is touring. You choose what you like. It is frustrating to see people have a bad time (one blog of 3 middle aged Americans had them booked every single B&B for a 31 night tour round the UK, and quelle surprise it went awry)

My experience is that for tours of over 10 days, it is hard to plan too much. And on my longest tour of 2 months it was nice to set off in the morning just assuming it would all be ok (it was). Personally I call or check ahead that the camping/hotel etc is open/available before rocking into town to be disappointed. In the USA a lot of sites don't take tents but a phone call with a British accent generally gets them to say yes! Also in the US the access road to the sites are often a mile or two off the highway, and you don't want to make that trip only to find them closed/full.

Personally I love the planning, googling all the nice sites and locations. You may enjoy differently!
 

jay clock

Massive member
Location
Hampshire UK
I don’t even understand those that plan out their daily itineraries and know exactly how far they will cycle, where they will stay and possibly even where they will eat
seeing this, it depends where you are. In west Texas the land is fenced in by gun toting ranchers. So if you know that the ONLY food or lodging options are at say 70 and 120km it means you can judge at the 70km point whether to keep going or not. And food is important to me so knowing I will get some matters to me!
 
OP
OP
HobbesOnTour
Location
España
He was accompanied by a mobile home and transported to and from these presentations (too much planning^_^) when he would have preferred to be resting after a day of cycling.

On a side note - I've read more than a few reports from cyclists doing charity rides who commented that the obligations imposed such as social media & presentations en route turned out to be far more onerous than they anticipated.

It depends, if there are other people involved a plan is often necessary to get them on board and show that you've done due diligence. Conversely you lose some of the flexibility and it takes some convincing to get people to agree to deviate from the route in the event of new information.
That's very true. If someone wants to come along with me I'll explain my relaxed attitude to planning. Most people, especially non-tourers find that very difficult to accept. I used to spend ages coming up with plans/routes/accommodation for the benefit of others. No longer.
On my own European tour I had some concrete long term objectives but short-term the extent of my planning would often be "what's the next big town and how far is it"
Touring is best when you see a road and say "I wonder what's up there" and indulge yourself without time pressure, although the standout day for me was a combination of planned and unscripted; I booked into a hotel for a rest day in Girona (with a cut-off time for check-in), and I got routed along a scarcely traversible trail through the gorgeous Guilleries-Savassona nature preserve - a place I'd never have visited without the time limit ruling out the longer routes. Challenging and alarming at the time but man, what an adventure.
Without a destination to aim for I'd be in serious danger of going nowhere! :smile:

The rain was falling for just under an hour. They could have stopped, but this would have thrown out the carefully planned timetable.

Villages/towns they passed through all had a scheduled time. No allowance for nature having a laugh. Which given they'd planned on travelling on back country lanes, at the height of summer, was overplanning.

The amount of time in the saddle was based on riding an unladen bike locallly first. Not the best way of working the timing out.

The rain was the last straw, in an afternoon when they'd multiple holdups on-route. Five people decided that cycling wasn't for them, and ditched the bikes.
I think that's a real shame! Not sure if the problem is too much planning or just poor planning. In any case, the fact that they never tried again is sad.

I spent 19 months touring the world.

I landed in South America with a 1:4,000,000 scale map and 4.5 months for that leg. I would decide which direction and roughly how long I wanted to travel. Head down the bus station and find a bus going the right direction. Get off in interesting terrain or looking places.

I ended up entering Paraguay after seeing a sign for the country when on a bus in Argentina. I was the only Gringo on the bus and border guards had me get off and find out why I was at their border. After a chat they stamped my passport and let me in. I visited the Jesuits ruins and had locals (who passed round a "herbal" drink ) on the buses I was on invite me into their houses when I found nowhere to stay where I got off. I got a lift with gun runners into Brazil. I sneaked over the border whilst customs dealt with the gun runners. This caused a problem exiting Brazil so I had to return to where I had entered explain myself, get an entry stamp then make a dash to the other border I wanted to exit at. I made it to the southern tip and managed to get a lift on a supply ship to Antarctica. I also found myself near one of the big telescopes up high in the Andes and was able to gaze at close up of Saturns rings. No cost as the person I was staying with worked there.

So you can certainly have adventure if you are flexible. But if I am touring in the Lakes in summer and not camping, then I will want my accommodation booked.
That's one hell of a story to have! ^_^
I'm also highly amused at the juxtaposition of the last paragraph - travel South America without a plan but not venture out without reservations in your back yard! :smile: I understand exactly what you mean.

Google Earth, and, streetview are terrible things for Georgraphy nerds.

I'm currently streetviewing possible rides in Japan, just because I enjoy it and it's the dead of winter and I'm fed up with not being able to ride a bike. I'm finding some fantastic places well off the tourist trails that we can explore.

The knowledge that I'm hopefully taking the Elder son with me and I don't want him disappointed by getting hopelessly lost on the first day is also a factor, partly because one peculiarity in Japan is an almost complete lack of street signs.

I have a similar habit in Germany although here streetview is far more limited so I have to restrict myself to endlessly looking at satellite views. I find it helps me find interesting things I wouldn't otherwise know about, which become the focus/destination/motivation for the ride. If I don't have a destination I feel like I'm riding aimlessly and don't really get anywhere. This year I've got a few places in mind, a castle no-one has heard of, a couple of old towns hidden away in the hills, and a few railway stations with a distinctive type of station building I want to make a model of.

Told you I was a nerd. I would have probably missed all of these if I hadn't found them online.

On the other hand, my reaction to any festivals I accidentally come across is to run/ride away as fast as I can...

I'd say there's a distinction between looking at what is around where you will be and actively planning "when I'm near X I'm going to do A,B,C & D". I agree it's good to know A,B,C & D are there (I think missing out on things is one of the great drawbacks of just following your nose), but I'm not sure of the merits of having an actual plan to do all of them. From my own experience, many of the things I planned and looked forward to were disappointing in the flesh.


Myself, I like a small bit of planning, mainly to make sure I am not missing out on fun things along the way. In my early days of touring I rode past so many great things that I could have done without knowing they existed.
Well, that's the thing. If you've no info you can miss out on so much. On the other hand, too rigid a plan can make t more difficult to enjoy whatever the road throws at you.

i don't really think i carry that much weight really - maybe 12kg max - thats including food - but because i also do a fair amount of multi-day backpacking trips - my gear is already very light - i'm constantly amazed by how much 'stuff' some cycle tourers seem to be carrying - especially when i then discover that they aren't even camping.
The thing is for some, 12 kg is very heavy! For me, it's on the light side. :smile:

the only thing that pisses me off is people with a strong view of what is right. Touring is touring. You choose what you like. It is frustrating to see people have a bad time (one blog of 3 middle aged Americans had them booked every single B&B for a 31 night tour round the UK, and quelle surprise it went awry)
I agree 100%! There is no right or wrong. It's all so personal. And it varies so much depending on location, climate, physical condition etc.
And I too get frustrated when I see tours going down the tube or people clearly not enjoying themselves. I think so much has to do with the space between the ears and far less to do with anything else. I wonder what role planning plays in developing the psychological strength?

seeing this, it depends where you are. In west Texas the land is fenced in by gun toting ranchers. So if you know that the ONLY food or lodging options are at say 70 and 120km it means you can judge at the 70km point whether to keep going or not. And food is important to me so knowing I will get some matters to me!
Well, that's just being smart. In such open spaces I don't see knowing where you can eat or sleep to be an example of planning every last detail. However, picking out the best pizzeria within 5 blocks of a motel in a Texas town is probably too much for me. :smile: Actually, finding a good, friendly place to eat is something I particularly enjoy in strange places.
 

Ming the Merciless

There is no mercy
Location
Inside my skull
That's one hell of a story to have! ^_^
I'm also highly amused at the juxtaposition of the last paragraph - travel South America without a plan but not venture out without reservations in your back yard! :smile: I understand exactly what you mean.

Not entirely unplanned

I had researched the geography, terrain, climate, and countries so had a good feel for what to expect, the distances and what was where.
I had studied some Spanish beforehand
I had got a full house of vaccinations including Yellow Fever , Rabies etc.
I had booked my flights into and out of South America so knew my entry an exit points and dates (admitedly the flight dates can be changed)
I was just the bit in between that was flexible and not pre determined.

But then I turned up at the airpoint in Santiago in Chile and my rucksack was missing. So my first 30 mins was spent filling in lost property forms. My rucksack turned up a couple of days later so did not delay me much as I was still touring round the city in my smelly clothes (I had flown in) at that stage.

One of the first things I do on entering a new country is buy a beer. Once I know the price of a beer I can work out the costs of anything else from that and barter as necessary.

Another example of what can happen is that I met an Australian guy travelling in South America and over a beer we exchanged contact details. He lives in Sydney and that was my next port of call after South America. I landed in Sydney, went to stay with him there, and catch up. He took me canyoning with his mates in the Blue Mountains then left me with his tent and stove and some food. I then spent a few days exploring the Blue Mountains, wild camping, before returning back to Sydney and continuing on my travels.

By the time I got to India the plan was to come back overland via Pakistan, Iran, Turkey etc. into Europe. But the Americans starting bombing Afganistan whilst I was travelling. September 11th 2001 I was mountain biking across Tibet and did not find out about the twin towers till I reached Nepal in October. So I changed my plans and flew to Nairobi, Kenya and then went overland down to South Africa. Africa was not even in any of my original plans when I set off. So having an outline but keeping it flexible enables you to adapt to what unfolds.

I think the longer the trip the more fleixible you can be, with less detailed planning. If it is a short trip it may bizarrely need more planning to get the most out of it, as setbacks may completely bugger it, where as on a long trip a weeks delay is neither here nor there.
 
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Location
London
One of the first things I do on entering a new country is buy a beer. Once I know the price of a beer I can work out the costs of anything else from that and barter as necessary..

Top tip :smile:

Though I suppose it would depend on what sort of place you bought it from - average bar/flash bar/supermarket - do you favour any particular one?

Tempted to ask if your economic litmus test has ever caused you to turn tail and prompty leave/skip the country.
 

Ming the Merciless

There is no mercy
Location
Inside my skull
@YukonBoy that's the kind of trip I like to read about. Not something I'd ever consider doing myself but always interesting reading.

I get irritated if there is a road closed on one of my meticulously planned 100 mile trundles round Kent. ;)

Another encounter was meeting the Red Army on a mountain I had decided to climb in China. It felt like something out of James Bond at the time, but it all passed amicably and they let me summit it. I was in a part of China we should have not have been, with a French man. Every time the authorities caught up with us we told them we had come from the direction we wanted to go, so they put us on a bus in the direction we wanted to go! I also sat next to the head of Tibetan TV on a long bus trip during this time in China which led to the Mtb Biking in Tibet.

It really was one of those true once in a life time trips before I was married and at the perfect point in my career and life to take those 19 months to travel the world. I can't see it happening again, and that was partly why I wanted to do it, whilst I had the fitness, health and motivation, and home situation to do it. I wanted to visit some true wildernesses and remote places that I would find extremely dfficult to get to in say a 4 weeks break.
 

Ming the Merciless

There is no mercy
Location
Inside my skull
Top tip :smile:

Though I suppose it would depend on what sort of place you bought it from - average bar/flash bar/supermarket - do you favour any particular one?

Tempted to ask if your economic litmus test has ever caused you to turn tail and prompty leave/skip the country.

Just an ordinary bar, not a tourist one, usually one found after touring the back streets a little. Many of the places I visited did not see many tourists and I always felt as a solo traveller that they were very kind wanting to help the stranger in their country and also asking what you thought of their country. I had some great conversations and kindness shown.

Ha a beer never caused me to turn tail and in some countries the cost of everything to travel for a month was less than the rental income from my house. So my saving were actually going up whilst I travelled.
 
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mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
the only thing that pisses me off is people with a strong view of what is right. Touring is touring. You choose what you like. It is frustrating to see people have a bad time (one blog of 3 middle aged Americans had them booked every single B&B for a 31 night tour round the UK, and quelle surprise it went awry)
First of all, the above seems rather self- contradicting.

Second, was it that the 3 Americans had booked everything or that they'd left themselves no slack? It might be interesting to read an account of overdosing on planning if you can find the link again.
 

MarkF

Guru
Location
Yorkshire
I don't plan anything, if I try then I quickly get bored and lose interest, my cousin & sometime touring partner is a world class organiser so if anything goes tits up, he'll have it covered.

If I am touring by myself then there is nothing I like better than just having a place to finish and zero route. My work life is organised so I don't want my holidays to be, I love getting lost, love it getting late in the day and I need a room.....................but I haven't got one. Most of all I like getting a big paper map out in the evening and I can sit there for many beers looking at it and wondering where to meander to the following day. The best places I've cycled to/through are the ones I've stumbled across.
 

mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
Part of your planning should involve learning which parts of Northern Spain do not like being spoken to in Spanish ^_^
My Catalan is slightly better than my Basque...

Yes I've struggled to get my head round Basque . All those x'es are intriguing but also fairly incomprehensible.

I've generally found that at least not being a.totally ignorant English person who expects everyone to speak my language, and who tries even incompetent Spanglish helps a bit.

Plus being on a bicycle, or on foot, somehow makes one generally more welcome, as a tourist in way that being in a car doesn't so much - another plus for cycling :bicycle:

A kindly friend tipped me off about some Spanish mapping sites too, which I'll put up on the other thread when I get a moment
 

mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
I don't plan anything, if I try then I quickly get bored and lose interest, my cousin & sometime touring partner is a world class organiser so if anything goes tits up, he'll have it covered.

If I am touring by myself then there is nothing I like better than just having a place to finish and zero route. My work life is organised so I don't want my holidays to be, I love getting lost, love it getting late in the day and I need a room.....................but I haven't got one. Most of all I like getting a big paper map out in the evening and I can sit there for many beers looking at it and wondering where to meander to the following day. The best places I've cycled to/through are the ones I've stumbled across.

I'm the same, my best ever holidays when I was younger were spent hitch hiking around Europe and North Africa..
The total randomness of not knowing where you will get to, who you will meet, or where you will sleep is a great adventure (mostly)

Still in middle age use it as a way of getting around in the hills of Scotland and Europe for accessing remote walking where public transport is scarce or non existent..
It's a self selecting way of meeting the friendly, helpful, and usually interesting people.. Who know stuff as locals, that the Internet won't tell you.
 
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